Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

COOL! P.S. Don't forget to turn off your transmitter (Picture 1) hehe.
Let us know how it handles with tail weight. I think I'll start at 2 1/4" and move back when I get use to it so I can get more acrobatics out of it.


I used those ball links too, a buddy from the club was at the LHS when I was picking up supplies and he said that's all he uses.
I'm glad you showed those, I forgot my antennae tube!

As Napoleon says, 'Lucky!' I'll miss the April meeting but I should have it there for the May meeting.
Well now that you're about done I'm going to totally hijack your thread and post my completion here too if that's all good (guess I should have asked sooner-sorry).

tuwood

hehe, I just finished setting up my throws. I guess I should post my initial radio set up for those curious.
(set up on Futaba 7C)

High rates:
Aileron: 35 degrees 1" (-50% expo)
Elevator: 35 degrees 2-3/4" (-50% expo)
Rudder: 35 degrees 4" (-50% expo)

Low rates:
Aileron: 18 degrees 1/2" (-30% expo)
Elevator: 18 degrees 1-1/5" (-30% expo)
Rudder: 25 degrees 3" (-50% expo)

I know my low rates are a little aggressive but I like having the extra throws available when the gusts hit on landing. [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

Permission granted! It's not my thread, it's everyones. Hopefully we don't have to turn it into a repair thread... (knock on wood)

Thinn

One season for him might be several hundred flights......
I think the Hyde-mount on my Caprice has survived since 2000, and probably 1-200 flights. It was a bit loose in the beginning of this season, but a couple of rounds of Vulc-tape did the trick!

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

You'll do fine. Maybe you should tell them at work that you have a new baby at home so you can leave early. LOL!

On the exhaust I had decided to just use silicone tube from the exhaust to the oil tank and I was talking to RC Don and he agreed so that fixes that. More testing this weekend. I'm curious to see how much more weight it will be. Everything but the bass mounts for the tank can be removed later.

tuwood

Dang it, I have to perform some emergency surgery tonight. I was doing the final run in on the engine tonight prior to tomorrow's flight & when I was done I picked it up & heard a loud clunk in the left wing. [:@]
My 1/2 oz. weight's that I put in the end of each wing tip vibrated loose. I just stuck them in with the self adhesive that came on the weights and apparently that wasn't much. The crappy part is they vibrated around so much that the monokote looks like it had a woodpecker trapped inside & has a bunch of puncture looking holes in it.
Oh well, yet again something I'd rather catch on the ground than in the air.

I have an engine question for the 4 stroke experts out there. I was having a tough time tweaking my engine in because it seemed as though I could never find where it was peaked or not. For example I started breaking the engine in at 5 turns out (per the manual) and the peak RPM was around ~7000 & I turned it one turn in (4 turns) & had it up to around 8000 RPM's. (what I posted the other day)
today I went out & started turning it in slowly & it never changed. It stayed at 8000 RPM's. The only thing that would be different would be the engine vibration would decrease as I made it leaner. I turned it in so that it was 2 & 1/2 turns briefly & it started to go down so I backed it back out to around 3 & 1/2 turns out where it's still at 8000 RPM's. I guess the part that's confusing me is why does it have such a huge range with the same RPM? I would vary the throttle slightly & the RPM's would go down, so my tach's working.
I still had a nice trail of smoke, so I think I'm still running rich.
It runs really good & is very responsive all the way through the throttle range, so I think it's safe to fly.
I'll certainly have some of the experts at my club take a look at it tomorrow before I fly. It seems like it's still vibrating a bit much, but this is my first 4 stroke.
I did get the low end needle adjusted down to where I have a pretty steady idle at around 2200 RPM's.

jrbmoto

My suggestion would be to start at 4 1/2 turns out, then slowly turn the needle in until it reaches peak RPMs. Then back it out until you see a slight drop in RPM, maybe 7800. Once in the air, your engine will unload, therefore the increse in RPM will require more fuel to keep things cool...You get the idea...Always error on the rich side especially with a cowled engine. You can always bring her back and tweek her a little bit if she seems a little fat. The most important thing is to not over heat that nice new motor!!

tuwood

Thanks for the advice jrbmoto.

I just got back from my monthly club meeting & posed my issue to them. They said that my prop was a little too much for the motor to spin up on the ground. They said the same as you that it would spin faster in the air.
One recommended going with a smaller prop because you can dial in the mixture a little better on the ground because 8000 RPM's is a little low in the power band.
I might see if I can pick up a 16x6 or 16x7 at the LHS before I hit the field tomorrow & give it a try.

I'm off to epoxy the weights into the wing tip.

BTW, everyone really like my plane tonight. Several people thought it was an ARF & wanted to know who made it. lol

DeadAccount237939

what i would suggest is that you go down in diameter, but not in pitch, or just down to a 7. a 15/8 or 15/7 is a good prop for a 1.2. when you go down in pitch, the prop loses its bite, and one advantage of a 4 banger is that you have the torque to turn higher pitch props. a 6 pitch is fine for little 2c engines, but that's about it. 17/4 is probably not a good 4c prop because the engines don't like to rev up..just sounds like too much diamter and not enough pitch.

i had four ultimates...loved every one. fly a very small box until you are sure it does what it is supposed to, because they don't glide to well.

have fun! beautiful airplane.

David Cutler

I do a similar thing , but angle them into the middle so that they touch behind the rudder. Then it's
really accurate all the way through the range of movement of the elevator.

The model looks really great!

-David C.

SStrick

I agree with AWS on the prop. 6 is getting low and your motor will only do excessive high R's, the last thing you want on a 4C.

Also, although you will see a decrease in vibration as the motor breaks in, it will always be more then what you will experience with a 2C. That vibration will always continue to reveal any weaknesses in both the hardware and the structure. Not to rant but, I'm a diehard on vibration absorbing mounts for this very reason. The model will last longer too.

Beautiful job, awsome finish. Good luck tomorrow.

tuwood

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll definitely pick up a smaller prop. I may be limited by what the LHS has in stock, but I'll check out the 15x8.
The only reason I ordered the 17x4W was for 3D type stuff & it's what everyone seems to be recommending for this engine over in the Saito 1.25 thread. I'll probably be spending a lot of money on prop's trying to find the right ones.

I was just saying the other day that I hope we don't turn this into a repair thread & what am I doing. Posting pictures of my repair. hehe.
The first picture is of the left underside of the wing. You can see all of the dimples from the weight bouncing around in there. I cut it open & epoxied the weight on & added some extra for good measure. That baby aint going no where now!!!
I then cut out a patch piece and ironed it on. It actually turned out pretty good & it's on the underside of the wing so nobody will ever notice.

RVM

Today is the day! Don't forget to let us know how everything goes.

tuwood

Well guys, as promised I have pictures and video from today. I wish I could say it was all good news but it isn't.
To sum things up the Maiden went absolutely perfect. I have never flown a more graceful machine. I didn't have to touch a single trim, it was 100% perfect!!
The second flight was going just fine too. I started to experiment a little with knife edges to see if there was any coupling & it did couple a little to the belly. No biggie & after the second knife edge attempt after I leveled out & began my turn, wam... I lost all control of the plane, it ignored all of my inputs. I was banging all of the sticks in every direction & it completely ignored me & flew stright into the ground stopping by a tree on the way down at 3/4 throttle... I had plenty of altitude, was close to the field doing a normal turn & it just quit.
I do have video of both flights, the maiden & the unfortunate second.
[link=http://www.uwood.net/video/rc/UltMaiden.wmv]Maiden[/link]
[link=http://www.uwood.net/video/rc/UltimateFinal.wmv]Final[/link]

There were quite a few club members that saw it the night before and were as crushed as I was. They all pitched in to help see what happened. We first checked the battery voltage & it was good, plus my voltwatch was still on the top green LED when I took off. We plugged the battery back into the switch to see if anything was working & it was completely dead, nothing worked. I then plugged the battery directly into the receiver & what servo's were left all started working again. Upon further inspection & diagnostics the connection between the switch & the receiver was bad, you can see in the final video that as I move it around it works & stops working. I am so ticked that my beautiful plane was destroyed because of a stupid $1 switch. I spend the extra money on Futaba parts because I value my planes so much. As you can imagine I'm completely devastated.

I wish I knew how I could have prevented this!! I would not have felt anywhere near as bad if I would have done something stupid & actually crashed it due to pilot error, or even made an error in my build that made something fail.

I don't really know what I'm going to do now. Most of the servo's are gone, the pushrod's on the engine are smashed into the head, the plane is completely destroyed. Oh, & to add insult to injury I somehow dropped my radio after watching my baby go in & broke the antenna off. I then proceeded to cut my finger open on the antenna trying to push it back in. Uggh
I'm going to call Futaba Monday to see what they say. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to send me a new switch. Oh boy!

Well the good news is we don't have to turn this into a repair thread becuase there's nothing left to repair.

R/C Lee

My Feedback: (3)

Tony, I have been following this thread and I am so sorry that your switch quit on you. That's something that could happen to any of us and I guess the only way around it is to install parallel redundant switches, something we shouldn't have to do. There are more expensive switches on the market today, but what stops them from failing as well? Futaba, and all manufacturers, should use only the best switch components available. It seems a shame that they might have "value engineered" a few cents out of the switch. I think we would all pay a few dollars more to get reliable switches as part of our system instead of having to buy new ones. Such a beautiful aircraft and I hope you build another. [] Lee

tuwood

Thanks Lee, a lot of what I do next (& when) will depend on if I can get any help from Futaba on Monday. I pretty much extorted all the money I could out of my wife to get this one done. I'm half tempted to try and talk them out of an ARF & then recover it, but I'm sure they've got all kinds of disclaimers that will get them out of that.

Well, now that it's been a few hours I've gone from I'll never build another plane again to wandering out to the garage to truly assess the damage so I can see what I can salvage for the next one. The battery & receiver were untouched in the crash & seem to be in very good shape. The rudder servo is as good as new. One of the elevator servo's is free spinning so it is surely stripped & the other one has a clicking sound when it moves so I'm sure it's got a chipped tooth as well. Fortunately those are the cheaper digital servo's. One of the servo's from the wing is completely missing & I couldn't find it and the other one is locked tight, so it doesn't look like my servo's faired very well other than the rudder and the throttle.
the fiberglass cowel is repairable & the LG & wheelpants look as good as new.
The pushrods are all roasted but the horns all seem to be ok.

I pulled the engine off to assess the damage there & it appears the only problem is the intake pushrod is bent/jammed. The engine still turns & the air just pushes in and out of the carb, so it's jammed open. There is no binding at all in the engine & no outward signs of damage, so if I can figure out how to replace the pushrod that will save me a ton of money.

BTW, on the engine note, I did pick up a 15x8 prop on the way to the field today & it had absolute unlimited vertical. My favorite part of the day was the take-off of the doomed flight. That sucker was airborne in 10-15 feet.
There's also a display of the power towards the end of the Maiden video. On the first practice approach I flew the same pattern I do with my little extra & it was way too sharp & slow for the Ultimate & it stalled big time. I gunned the throttle & it shot out of trouble in no time. It almost looks like I was trying to hover it, but I was getting out of trouble. You can hear me saying they don't turn like the little ones.

tuwood

OK, not funny RCU. Check out the banner add that popped up on my thread.
BTW, the 2Pak is very expensive.

SStrick

Tony, I know all of us reading this are quite familiar with where your at. I know that doesn't help now but tomorrow is another day. Besides, there are too many of us out here waiting to see what Tony will build next..!

tuwood

Yeah, I know what your saying. I went from shock at the field, to complete devastation when I got home. I was actually half in tears when I typed my flight report earlier. I really loved that plane!!!
I'm now so glad that I got the 1 and a half good flights out of it & I'm getting even more motivated to build another one. I have always loved the Ultimate and that's why I built one. Now that I've flown one, I absolutely have to have another one!!!

I'm already starting to think of things I can do to make the next one lighter and better...

formerlycrashes

So sorry, Tony. What a waste,I've been watching your build all along since I was building an Ultimate at the same time. Flew the Skybolt yesterday, waiting for warmer weather before I take the Ultimate for the maiden. Don't need my knees knockin' from the cold AND the nerves!

KCRemoteFlyer

Wow man, great video, nice lookin plane!!

Sorry for the loss!

WacoNut

I know that has to be heart wrenching!!!
I am sure your next plane will just as nice.
Anthony

jb86

My Feedback: (8)

i have used in several aircraft the maxx products mpi switch- "miracle switch", 6v. i use a 2 cell lipo 900 mh. the regulator gives a clean 6v where as a 5 cell provides more than 6v (the rx peforms better w/no less than 6v). another great feature, the regulator is turned on by the switch, but if for any reason the switch fails it just doesn't turn off, you have to unplug the battery. it costs about $40, wieghs 1 ounce total w/reg. the 900 2 cell lipo is 1.1 ounce, saves me a couple ounces over a 5 cell. i also use an r/c reporter e version. when you flip the gear switch it beeps to tell you the voltage remaining in the rx batt. it's worked well for me.
jon b

tuwood

Thanks guys for your posts.

jb86, that switch looks really good. I like their tag line for the switch: "NO MORE CRASHES DUE TO SWITCH FAILURE!!"
Apparently I'm not the only one this has happened to.
I can certainly say that I will never build another plane again with a standard power switch in it. I will certainly be researching the heck out of switch redundancy & failsafe type things like the miracle switch.
Obviously there's the issue of losing my plane, but our field is in the city of Omaha at a public park and has houses bordering it on two sides. We have a very good relationship with the surrounding neighborhood. That switch failure could have happened at any time during my flight & I was extremely lucky that my plane didn't fly into somebody's house. When I went looking for my plane all I was saying to myself was please don't hit a house, please don't hit a house. If my plane would have went into a house there's a good chance it could have cost us our field!
I was noticing on a couple passes that it might need a slight bump of left aileron trim because it barely had a right roll in it, but I didn't adjust it. That slight Aileron roll is what saved me because it rolled slightly & went into the tree. You can see the houses in the background where it went down. If anything now I'm just trying to get over that feeling of complete terror as I watched my plane fly towards those houses out of control. I was actually hoping it would crash at that time...

But, on a more positive note. I have decided to build another Ultimate kit. I just wouldn't feel right getting the ARF. I don't know when I'll be able to afford all the pieces, but like I said earlier hopefully Futaba can help me on some of that. If anything maybe they (tower hobbies) can get me the replacement stuff at cost.

tuwood

OK, some positive news. I pulled my engine apart & the only damage is a bent intake pushrod & the pushrod cover. The cam is fine & there is no damage to the crank shaft or cam gears. The compression is as good as ever with both valves closed so I should be good to go.
I'll call the LHS tomorrow & get them on order, but it looks like the damage will be around $15. I can live with that

RVM

So sorry for what happened.

At least the second kit will go a bit faster and probably be a bit better now that you've got one under your belt.

Is there anything you will change when you build the second one?