tuwood

I was certainly in mourning yesterday but I'm back at it today. I already have most of my shopping list ready for everything I need to order. So far, I need to get a new kit of course & 4 new servo's. I could rebuild the ones I've got, but that makes me a little nervous do to the violent crash they endured.
Hopefully I'll get some good news out of Futaba tomorrow to help me get my kit on order a little sooner. If not it may take a couple weeks to save up my allowance. Yes, I'm 33 & my wife gives me an allowance.

Everyone is free to continue posting their builds here. If anything this will just make the build thread better for all Ultimate builders out there.
Also don't be afraid to post things you liked or didn't like about the way I built the first one. I truly want to make the next one better & I need all of your help for that.

As for what I am going to do different on the next one:
I'm thinking about getting a different power switch assembly.
I am certainly going to get a different motor mount that offers some vibration protection.
I really want to use some lighter push rods but I can't figure out what to use. I probably need some help here
I'll be looking for weight savings anywhere I can, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

**edit**
I just thought of one other thing I'll do different. I think I'm going to try some different hinges. When I used the CA hinges I got the gap a little too tight on one of the elevators. That's why I only had 35 degrees of throw versus 45 on the elevators. One side would go 45 but the other stopped at 35

SStrick

Please consider vibration mounts. Electronics hate vibration as well as the airframe too.[8D]

tuwood

Yes, that's a certainty.

I'm looking at the Sullivan Dynamount.
If I use it I may actually be able to put my elevator servo's in the tail because the dynamount weighs 5 oz. & my elevator servos each weigh 1.5 oz. Plus I wouldn't need the long 4-40 pushrods so the balance might come out about right.

Something to think about.

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

I hate that happened so soon Tony.

You've opened my eyes to some new equipment. I had a plane do the same thing and never did find out what happened. I never checked the switch, it's laying around here, I think I'll look into it.

I was thinking when I get this one done my next one will go a lot faster. I did a pre-assebley tonight and found a few problems with the location of the top wing and it was twisted by about 2mm in each direction so of coarse I had to fix it.

I'll post pictures tomorrow.

tuwood

I spoke with Tower this morning & the guy was real nice & very sympathetic.

He said that I need to send in all of the electronics & they'll test everything & verify what the failure was. If they determine that it was the switch that failed they are technically only responsible for the electronics that were destroyed but they may be able to work with me on some of the airplane stuff.

So I'll be compiling a DVD with all of my documentation on the build, a link to this thread & both video's. So everyone only post nice things about tower so we don't tick them off.

WacoNut

Towers Great
I will place my order to finish off both Aircoupe's I am building as soon as they take care of you
Anthony

Connery

Be sure to send them in a copy of the second video...especially the part where you are moving the wire to the switch and it works and stops working. I would think that would be good enough proof of the switch failure.

tuwood

I can say one of the many benifits of doing a build thread is that I have all kinds of documentation of my build.
I made a CD with both the maiden & the crash video in high resolution. I also included all pictures from my entire build & provided a link to this build thread.
I'll be sending all of the electronics as well as full receipts of everything I purchased (a lot of it from tower). I also wrote a letter describing basically the same thing in my crash post earlier.
I requested that if they confirm that the power switch was indeed the reason for my planes crash then to please give it a painful death. Or send it back so I can boil it in oil, run it over with my truck & then hit it with a hammer! [sm=punching.gif]
I can also say that I am very glad I have video of the first couple flights because it would be tough to argue pilot error.

I have to box everything up tonight & I'll get it in the mail tomorrow. I probably won't find out till next week what the verdict is.

SStrick

Tony - I noticed you said you picked up a prop on the way to the field. Did you balance it before using it? I know I'm starting to sound like a vibration freak but I have never in 39 years found a prop to balance off the shelf (OK, may be one).

I guess I get my infatuation with vibration from the old days where the Orbit, EK and Heathkit radios couldn't stand it as well as from flying heli's. Although the radios have changed through the years, a cold solder joint can happen anywhere, anytime.

I hope Tower treats you well; they are decent to the retail people. GP on the other hand, is not so nice to the LHS. Rebuilding the gears in a servo is a piece of cake. Don't let that deter you from doing it if need be.

I guess I'm lucky and never have had a switch go bad. I'll be more suspicions of them in the future

tuwood

I have one of the fingertip prop balancers that I use. I'll admit that i don't get crazy with it, but I do make sure they aren't way off.

I have rebuilt many servo's on my foamies, but with the dual elevator ones & such I'd be a little worried they wouldn't match perfectly anymore. If Futaba warrants their electronics due to the failure then I may get a new flight pack. If not I may be rebuilding them.

R/C Lee

My Feedback: (3)

Tony, on my Ultimate (still under construction), I'm using carbon fibre pushrods (from Central Hobbies) on two digital servos for elevators and a Sullivan Kevlar pull-pull setup on a digital servo for rudder. Also using four digital servos on ailerons (short 4-40 rods) with a matchbox to set their throws. Also using Sullivan metal control horns/clevises (I've had other horns break) on all surfaces with plywood mounting pieces built into the rudder and elevators. For the engine, I'm using a DuBro "soft" mount to help hold down any vibration. For a power switch, I have heard too many stories of switch failure, so am using a Maxx heavy duty switch. Instead of using the supplied hinges, I asked my wife to sew up some full span coverite hinges for all of the surfaces. They are a little tricky to install, but they work beautifully when installed properly and seal all of the gaps as well.

You might want to get something more accurate than the fingertip prop balancer. They are probably OK at the field in an emergency, but something like the Top Flite balancer really gives you a good balance. Regardless of prop brand that I buy, I always balance the prop as soon as I get it home, then using a sharpie I put a "B" right on the prop hub that tells me I have balanced it. When you get old, you'll see why we need to write everything down, do it in sequence, become somewhat anal, etc. It pays off.

Thanks to you and others on this thread, I have incorporated most of the changes that people have written about, as well as just going over everything and beefing it up where I thought necessary. I'm glad that you will be rebuilding/newly building. Your bird was too beautiful to not fly again.

Good luck with your negotiations with Tower. Keep us informed. Thanks, Lee

Fasa

My Feedback: (5)

Great looking plan...sorry for the loss...

quick question: (I'm a new builder)
I noticed some CA glue and the quick drying spray. did you use CA on the whole plane or did you cement it? is there anything wrong with useing CA? if so, why? It's much faster. I hate all the waiting to dry stuff...lol

Build another!!

Mike Fas

jb86

My Feedback: (8)

look at the maxx mpi miracle switch, it's failsafe. the regulator will stay on if the switch ever fails, you would then unplug the battery. i use a 2 cell lipo w/6v regulator. saves a couple ounces, longer flight times. 1 thing to keep in mind if using a regulator (i also have smart-fly) is to unplug the battery at the end of the day, the regulator drains a tiny amount of juice out of the battery even while off. it works great and gives a true 6v, over 6v is not good for rx. the heavy duty switch is still just a mechanical switch. the miracle switch is $40, worth it to me. i buy the best of es voltmeters, cyclers, chargers, only SR batteries for all my nicads, the time and money i invest in my aircraft is too valuable. i test batteries and control surfaces (incl direction) before every flight. too many aircraft are lost for something overlooked or rx battery.
jon b

jb86

My Feedback: (8)

fasa,
i use all ca on everything. i use almost only zap (it's real expensive, but i trust it). it comes thin, med, thick, they all have their specific uses. there's been talk of the health hazards of ca, it's best to have some ventilation (also for epoxy), however you'll find lots of people using it in the basement (me included). i have tried to use yellow glue to sheet a balsa frame horizontal stab, it bent when the glue dried, i build another and used thick ca instead, it didn't bend.
the thicker it is, the longer the set time. i use ca on the entire fuse except the firewall (30 minute epoxy), maybe the wing mounts w/ epoxy too. most kit instructions tell which type of glue to use at each step (i've build goldberg cubs and chipmunk, and great planes .60 extra 300 among others, the instructions generally specify glue types). you'll assemble the fuse and wick medium ca into it to glue, real easy. medium to glue ribs to the spars, thick to glue sheeting to the wings.
get some accellerator (mostly for plywood, to "clamp"), but only usae as much accelerator as needed, but it weakens when over used. and keep some debonder handy for the mishap when you glue your fingers together.
jon b

R/C Lee

My Feedback: (3)

fasa, jon's right about the use of ca and epoxy. The only exception I have to his comments is that when I am sheeting a large surface such as a fuselage, wing, or even the fin and stab on the Ultimate, I'll use Titebond II available at the local home center. I put the Titebond in a "bellows applicator" available from Micro-Mark, and I can then put a bead of glue on the ribs/formers/longerons/spars/etc just where I want it. The Titebond gives me a little time to bend the sheeting, clamp it, and make any necessary adjustments before the glue sets up. When working with ca, the moisture in wood that is wetted so it will bend often sets up the ca before I can get everything aligned and properly laminated to the surface. If you're worried about something flat such as a stab becoming warped due to the "wet" Titebond, just pin it to a flat surface to dry. For a wing leading edge, to speed things up a bit, I'll ca the edge of the wing sheeting to the wing's leading edge. Then, after it is set, I wet the sheeting on the outer side, glue up the ribs and spar with Titebond, and clamp the whole thing together with clothes pin clamps and pins. First of all, though, I clamp the wing to my building board using balsa blocks to make sure I don't induce some washin/washout while the sheeting is drying. Be sure to wipe up any excess glue and it'll save you some sanding trouble.

By the way, the bellows applicator is really a great tool - $5.75 for 2 of them from micromark.com; you probably need to get a catalog from them - they have a lot of great small tools for the hobbyist. Just be sure to store the applicator upside down (with the cap on, of course). Otherwise the glue will set up in the applicator tube (guess how I know this one .)

tuwood

I like those CF pushrod's. Which size did you go with for your Ultimate? I'm guessing 3/16" with 4-40 titanium ends? Also, do those go into some sort of sleeve, or are they stiff enough to go directly between the servo's in the belly & the control horns?
I am also seriously considering upgrading to CF landing gear & lighter weight axles. The Stans gear with standard Hobbico axles, foam wheels & fiberglass wheelpants weigh's 11 oz. (I just weighted them)

I narrowed my engine mount down to the dubro soft mount & the sullivan one. The sullivan one seems a bit heavy (5 oz.), do you guys by chance know how heavy the dubro one is? It doesn't say on their web site.
I probably will invest in a larger prop balancer but I think my vibration issues earlier were due to the rich mixture during break in. Once I leaned it out more the vibration was fairly minimal.

If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm going to be very weight conscious on my next Ultimate. It had absolute unlimited vertical at 9.5 lbs. (final weight) but hey, 8.5 lbs. would be a lot better. hehe

I'll certainly keep you all informed on the warranty response. I just finished boxing up all of my servo's, receiver, & the evil switch. [:@]

I'll have to decide if I want to cover the next one the same or make it different. It just seems wrong to cover it exactly the same. Respect for the dead and all.

tuwood

Hey, i resemble that remark. See post [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3899491]63[/link]

Fasa, yes I do pretty much exactly what jb86 said. As a general statement any wood I have to put glue on & push it together I use thick CA to give me a little extra time. (emphasise the word little). For things such as the wing rib's & fuse you line them all up without glue & then use Medium CA on all of the joints. It wicks into the wood for a strong joint. My shop is in the garage & the only problem I have with fumes is when I'm sheeting becuase I'm pouring CA all over the top of the wing. But on the bright side I feel really good when it's done. [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]
I don't use CA a lot, but it's very handy to have around when you're bending sheeting & want it to stay where it's at.
I use 30 minute epoxy for the tail feathers & the firewall as well as any areas I want to give some extra strength or have extra working time.

You'll find if you dig around RCU there are dozens of CA versus Wood Glue debates & it really comes down to personal preference & building style. I love to build, but I'm still a little impatient so CA really suits me. I also like to follow the directions start to finish whereas you'll see a lot of the wood glue builders work a little on everything because they'll move to other parts of the build while waiting for one part to dry.

As for which is stronger, I have no clue; but I built my Somethin Extra with all CA & it handles full speed snap rolls with ease & has had a few rough landings with no problems.

Good luck!

tuwood

Which brand & size lipo do you use? I have a lipo charger for my foamies & had never really considered lipo's for my glow planes.
Do they make Lipo charge jacks that look nice on the outside of the plane, or do you physically hook up the charger to the battery each time?

R/C Lee

My Feedback: (3)

Tony, my cf rods are probably 3/16, but measure around 7/32 od and have the 4-40 pushrod ends. They are so stiff that I don't plan to put them into sleeves, although I have used Sullivan cf rods in sleeves in the past. I don't have anything accurate enough to measure the weight of the DuBro soft mount, but I think a call to them will give you the answer. If you do use it, be sure to position the engine far enough ahead of the firewall bolt heads so the carb assy clears when it is installed [:@]. It is very easy to drill and tap, almost as easy as a glass mount. It is also a longer mount, so you can either move the firewall back or deal with an engine with the prop appx 1/4" + ahead of where shown on the plan. Two more things I did was install some medium fiberglass cloth on the leading edge of the lower wing using thin ca, and put the lower wing servos/horns on the upper side of the wing. We fly off a grass field and it's always possible to catch something on the lower wing.

Lee

jb86

My Feedback: (8)

the 2 cell lipos i prefer to use are thunder power (they are good quality) and i have (2) 900's from cermark. they all have jst connectors from the factory crimped on (it's safest to not have any solder joints inline, they're brittle). i have a good quality servo wire crimper, i use a jst female connector several inch long and crimp the rx male connector, this gives an adapter jumper between the lipo and rx switch. larger lipo's come w/no jst connector factory applied, i feel it's safest w/o having to solder connectors. you could also crimp a standard hitec connector on any size battery (instead of using an adapter wire). the reason i keep the jst on the lipo is i use the same chargers as for all my lipos (also use them in my blade cx helicopter), i have a triton and electrifly charger. just keep the charge rate below 1C, i.e. 900 mh battery at less than 900 mh charge (about 700). use velcro to hold battery in place (maybe also use a velcro strap or a support w/foam to brace), keep it removable, but make sure it can't move until you take it out. if you have two lipo's you can swap them out for more flying. i said earlier, unplug at the end of the day, the regulator drains the rx batt. watch the voltage, keep above 3v per cell. i use the r/c reporter e version (i think; rcreporter.com; lost plane locator, and flip the gear switch, it beeps to tell you the volts in the lipo, i use instead of an expanded scale voltmeter, it's not safe to charge the lipo inside the aircraft, so keep it removable. if you'd like tomorrow i could post pic's of the set up. you have a longer flight time w/900 mh lipo than 900 mh nicd.
i have used the hitec hs 5945, it draws 300 mh no load, a standard cored motor hs 425 draws 100 mh, checked w/an ammeter on the bench. check your servos to see how much power your drawing w/your digitals. i also have a mini hitec digital that only draws 100 mh. verify w/mpi that your not drawing too much power, i'm sure your not, but smart fly has one for more current draw.
carbon fiber push rods i've used; i buy carbon fiber arrows at walmart (the lightest possible), cut it as long as possible, drill a 5/64" hole about 4" in from each end, 2-56 rod bend a 90 degree about 1/8" long, slide into the tube, thru the hole and wedge a hard balsa pc in w/epoxy and it's locked in.
engine mount; i use the GP nylon mount, .60-1.20 is 4.5 ounce, so don't feel bad about 5 ounce for an alum mount.
jon b

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

Tony, so sorry to hear about your plane! I was really shocked to read about your loss. That sucks! I hope you do build another, and we always learn from our experiences, so if you build another, I'm sure it will be even better. I talked to a club member that built three of the one kit, as he had mishaps with the first two, and loved the plane so much.

I have just finished assembling my Ultimate, and I think I'm done with the task of painting cowl & pants. I started mounting my radio gear, and I'll post pics soon. You did a nice job, hope #2 is as satisfying as #1 was.

I had one plane I crashed so much I named it "sudden impact". After rebuilding it, I wrote on the side, "sudden impact II". If you love to build, it's not such a big set-back. Sorry it happened, but, "Do it again!"

Keep the faith,

Pilgrim

tuwood

Thanks, I'm feeling a lot better today. Everyone at work knew I'd been working on this & I'd been sending pictures around. There were about a dozen people that came out to watch it fly on Saturday. You would have thought I had a death in the family the way everyone was reacting today at work. Heck, I was even in tears when I got home Saturday when I had to break the news to my kids. My daughter started to cry & kept asking me all day if I ordered a new one yet. It's so wierd how we get attached to these planes.

I am certainly going to build another and I am really excited about it. You know how there's always that one plane you've loved for as long as you can remember. For me it's the Ultimate & I will always have one. If #2 goes down there will be a #3.
The second will surely be better than the first & the build should go a lot faster.

I look forward to seeing your pictures!

Tony

tuwood

OK, "Ultimate I" has been enshrined as my Avatar.

Fasa

My Feedback: (5)

Best of luck on the next one! Get some decals that say UII for the side and the wing!

You can call her U2.

Mike Fas

treedog

certainly feel bad about ur plane i've been thinking about that switch prob and think i've located something that im looking into theres just too many manual switch failures lately so im talking to digi-key who makes electronic push on push off switches ill get back to u if they have 1 that can handle all rc needs so far it looks promising. these are all high power transistor switches hopefully no mecanical failures good luck
john reece