Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
12-03-2006, 02:43 PM
#451
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
Redundant packs are the way to go. If I have a bad unexplained crash everything gets thrown out. The reciever get looked at then when it comes back I smash it with a hammer, like wise the servos. I have seen too many people using gear which is crash damaged. It may work for a while but one day it will catch you out. When I start building my ulti I am not using any OEM gear. The extensions are going to be heavy duty like wise the switches. Each battery pack will have an idiot light connected.
We all have too much time and money invested in our sport so the small cost of an extra battery and switch is easily justified.
We all have too much time and money invested in our sport so the small cost of an extra battery and switch is easily justified.
12-04-2006, 03:39 PM
#452
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Varkiza, GREECE
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
Hello everyone,
I started building my ultimate and I run into a problem.
The notched trailing edge of the wings does not line up with the wing ribs on the plan.
The inner and outer ribs line perfectly ( according to the plan ) but the middle ribs dont.
It seems that the nothced trailing edge supplied is wrong.
So shall I go on and glue it as it is or make a new trailing edge ?
Has anyone had the same problem ?
Thanks for your help,
Thanos.
I started building my ultimate and I run into a problem.
The notched trailing edge of the wings does not line up with the wing ribs on the plan.
The inner and outer ribs line perfectly ( according to the plan ) but the middle ribs dont.
It seems that the nothced trailing edge supplied is wrong.
So shall I go on and glue it as it is or make a new trailing edge ?
Has anyone had the same problem ?
Thanks for your help,
Thanos.
12-04-2006, 04:23 PM
#453
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
I have had similar problems with various manufacturers. I find the simplest and quickest way is to cut new notches (or trim the ribs). They aren't really structural but just an aid to assit during construction. It doesn't matter if the notches are wider but do really try to make them the correct depth. Put a nice small fillet of glue either side once you remove the wing from the board.
Any other suggestions out there?
Any other suggestions out there?
12-04-2006, 04:32 PM
#454
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Varkiza, GREECE
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
Thank's baldrick,
I think I'll cut new notches. It's easy and this way I can follow the plans 100%.
Thanks again for your help,
Thanos.
I think I'll cut new notches. It's easy and this way I can follow the plans 100%.
Thanks again for your help,
Thanos.
12-04-2006, 05:14 PM
#455
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Owen Sound,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
It's not uncommon that the Leading and trailing edges length and the rib notches be out a bit. As long as the kit LE and TE are the same length and the rib nothes "line up" and of course the parts are the same for both left and right panels you likely have the intended parts even with the discrepencies.
Many plans will state in the fine print that they may differ slightly from parts provided and that even the paper shrinks and expands with relative humidity. The plan is a guide to assemble the parts provided. As long as the model is symetrical when finished and care is taken to match the materials to eliminate any warps. I have long assumed that I am going to be replacing spars and longerons when building.
If you build off the centerlines it will be fine. I am about to start on a CG Ultimate myself.
The very first 10-100 sat down the road from me for the last 14 years or so. It ended up there as it was sold to a scrapper at auction when Ultimate went under. It was flown to were is sat and rot and got parted out. It has been moved now. Sept 30th according to Moleski. I took a lot of pics of it and wondered how it had come to such an undignified end. With the million Ultimate models that have been built and flown I have wondered how many people knew or cared about it's humble beginnings and terrible end. The 10-100 was a dinky thing with the 16 foot span and slender little fuselage. The Goldberg Model is a great flyer. I would like to do a 10-200 version of it, get the cabane lowered to where it should be and shorten it up. It might not fly any better but a version of the 10-100,180,200 would be an eye pleaser.
Many plans will state in the fine print that they may differ slightly from parts provided and that even the paper shrinks and expands with relative humidity. The plan is a guide to assemble the parts provided. As long as the model is symetrical when finished and care is taken to match the materials to eliminate any warps. I have long assumed that I am going to be replacing spars and longerons when building.
If you build off the centerlines it will be fine. I am about to start on a CG Ultimate myself.
The very first 10-100 sat down the road from me for the last 14 years or so. It ended up there as it was sold to a scrapper at auction when Ultimate went under. It was flown to were is sat and rot and got parted out. It has been moved now. Sept 30th according to Moleski. I took a lot of pics of it and wondered how it had come to such an undignified end. With the million Ultimate models that have been built and flown I have wondered how many people knew or cared about it's humble beginnings and terrible end. The 10-100 was a dinky thing with the 16 foot span and slender little fuselage. The Goldberg Model is a great flyer. I would like to do a 10-200 version of it, get the cabane lowered to where it should be and shorten it up. It might not fly any better but a version of the 10-100,180,200 would be an eye pleaser.
12-04-2006, 07:36 PM
#456
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Washington,
IL
Posts: 449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
ORIGINAL: Stearman Flyer
It's not uncommon that the Leading and trailing edges length and the rib notches be out a bit. As long as the kit LE and TE are the same length and the rib nothes "line up" and of course the parts are the same for both left and right panels you likely have the intended parts even with the discrepencies.
Many plans will state in the fine print that they may differ slightly from parts provided and that even the paper shrinks and expands with relative humidity. The plan is a guide to assemble the parts provided. As long as the model is symetrical when finished and care is taken to match the materials to eliminate any warps. I have long assumed that I am going to be replacing spars and longerons when building.
If you build off the centerlines it will be fine. I am about to start on a CG Ultimate myself.
The very first 10-100 sat down the road from me for the last 14 years or so. It ended up there as it was sold to a scrapper at auction when Ultimate went under. It was flown to were is sat and rot and got parted out. It has been moved now. Sept 30th according to Moleski. I took a lot of pics of it and wondered how it had come to such an undignified end. With the million Ultimate models that have been built and flown I have wondered how many people knew or cared about it's humble beginnings and terrible end. The 10-100 was a dinky thing with the 16 foot span and slender little fuselage. The Goldberg Model is a great flyer. I would like to do a 10-200 version of it, get the cabane lowered to where it should be and shorten it up. It might not fly any better but a version of the 10-100,180,200 would be an eye pleaser.
It's not uncommon that the Leading and trailing edges length and the rib notches be out a bit. As long as the kit LE and TE are the same length and the rib nothes "line up" and of course the parts are the same for both left and right panels you likely have the intended parts even with the discrepencies.
Many plans will state in the fine print that they may differ slightly from parts provided and that even the paper shrinks and expands with relative humidity. The plan is a guide to assemble the parts provided. As long as the model is symetrical when finished and care is taken to match the materials to eliminate any warps. I have long assumed that I am going to be replacing spars and longerons when building.
If you build off the centerlines it will be fine. I am about to start on a CG Ultimate myself.
The very first 10-100 sat down the road from me for the last 14 years or so. It ended up there as it was sold to a scrapper at auction when Ultimate went under. It was flown to were is sat and rot and got parted out. It has been moved now. Sept 30th according to Moleski. I took a lot of pics of it and wondered how it had come to such an undignified end. With the million Ultimate models that have been built and flown I have wondered how many people knew or cared about it's humble beginnings and terrible end. The 10-100 was a dinky thing with the 16 foot span and slender little fuselage. The Goldberg Model is a great flyer. I would like to do a 10-200 version of it, get the cabane lowered to where it should be and shorten it up. It might not fly any better but a version of the 10-100,180,200 would be an eye pleaser.
12-04-2006, 08:17 PM
#457
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Owen Sound,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
ORIGINAL: FlyerBry
I have often considered doing the 20-300 version which is the two-place version under development when the company went under. I haven't been able to come up with any concrete changes to the original dimensions so I am unsure if they actually lengthened the fuselage at all. I know they moved the rear cockpit aft a bit to fit in the new front one but that's about it.
I have often considered doing the 20-300 version which is the two-place version under development when the company went under. I haven't been able to come up with any concrete changes to the original dimensions so I am unsure if they actually lengthened the fuselage at all. I know they moved the rear cockpit aft a bit to fit in the new front one but that's about it.
A couple 3 views here show that they are close. The 20-300 was purpose minded for dual aerobatic training. The longer it gets so do the rails it's on. A variety of the models made would be a welcome site. If anyone knows of a kit or plans of aything but the 10-300 I would be interested to know one exists.
Dan Ulrich, who I believe was the draftsman for all the Ultimates did a plan for a 10-300 from the full scale blueprints. There were just a few sheets on 36" wide paper. It wasn't a model plan per say but a 1/3 scale drawing of the 10-300 in exact detail and dimensions and intended for a modeller to develop his own model from. That's going back a long time now.
12-05-2006, 09:58 AM
#458
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Owen Sound,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
http://moleski.net/ULTBIPE/ulthist.htm
Within the other site there is this info on the 20-300. The 2 seater would lend itself well to a more detailed interior for a more distinctive model.
12-05-2006, 02:05 PM
#459
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
Its funny we went to the full size Ultimate....as I have called and emailed Ultimatebiplane.com and they will be sending me a set of plans for the 10-300. Seems they have bought the rights to it and are keeping the Ultimate alive?
12-10-2006, 03:52 PM
#460
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: mississauga,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
Tuwood..................Just came across this thread again after many months. I am so sorry about the loss of the Ultimate. Yes we do get attached to our models, especially the ones we put our heart and soul into. I'm glad to see that you are all set to start building this Ultimate again, again and again if that's the way it is going to be.
I have run into some problems with mine the CG Ultimate 10-300 ARF, but it was mostly due to servo problems. No it did'nt crash, almost did. I experienced some flutter on the maiden flight, by the time it landed safely it had ripped the two aileron servos (Futaba 9202) from the centre post where the servo horn attaches. I was lucky. The second time I installed two digital Hitec servos and experienced slow input response. After a number of tests with the Hitecs with experienced pilots we figured that these servos did'nt have the speed as indicated, the response just was'nt there. I had these servos replaced with Futabas digital servos, which they are on order. It has taken this long. The test flight will be next spring. The weather did'nt cooperate this year, too many strong wind and rainy days.
The flutter was fixed by sealing the hinge line, not because the hinge line had wide gap but somehow it fluttered. On the second test flight no flutter was experienced. The Saito 120 was just fantastic, the landings were smooth. The pull-pull worked just fine.
On the third test flight experienced slow servo response, and almost lost it. It is best to invest in good quality servos. I am not knocking Hitec servos. Perhaps maybe digitals drawn high current, Futaba have digital servos that only 4.8v can be used. So go figure.
Good luck with your next Ultimate build.
Charles.
I have run into some problems with mine the CG Ultimate 10-300 ARF, but it was mostly due to servo problems. No it did'nt crash, almost did. I experienced some flutter on the maiden flight, by the time it landed safely it had ripped the two aileron servos (Futaba 9202) from the centre post where the servo horn attaches. I was lucky. The second time I installed two digital Hitec servos and experienced slow input response. After a number of tests with the Hitecs with experienced pilots we figured that these servos did'nt have the speed as indicated, the response just was'nt there. I had these servos replaced with Futabas digital servos, which they are on order. It has taken this long. The test flight will be next spring. The weather did'nt cooperate this year, too many strong wind and rainy days.
The flutter was fixed by sealing the hinge line, not because the hinge line had wide gap but somehow it fluttered. On the second test flight no flutter was experienced. The Saito 120 was just fantastic, the landings were smooth. The pull-pull worked just fine.
On the third test flight experienced slow servo response, and almost lost it. It is best to invest in good quality servos. I am not knocking Hitec servos. Perhaps maybe digitals drawn high current, Futaba have digital servos that only 4.8v can be used. So go figure.
Good luck with your next Ultimate build.
Charles.
12-23-2006, 02:22 PM
#461
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Varkiza, GREECE
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
I have one more question,
I am in the process of attaching the wings interplane struts.
But I can't find where their location is. I mean how close to the treiling edge the bottom side of the strut has to be mounted.
I found many pictures on the net and it seems that there is not a specific place for them as people
attaching them in different places. ( closer or further from the trailing edge.)
Any suggestions ?
Thanks,
Thanos.
I am in the process of attaching the wings interplane struts.
But I can't find where their location is. I mean how close to the treiling edge the bottom side of the strut has to be mounted.
I found many pictures on the net and it seems that there is not a specific place for them as people
attaching them in different places. ( closer or further from the trailing edge.)
Any suggestions ?
Thanks,
Thanos.
12-23-2006, 03:42 PM
#462
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: mississauga,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
Hi Thanos......................My Ultimate is an ARF, I don't have the plans. If you follow your plans together with the building manual you should be able to figure the whole thing out. The interplane struts attachment on the ARF is a bit different than the kit. But you should be able to fit the build up tabs in the hollow area of the interplane struts. I fitted mine with blind nuts, but this was a modification.
I can get you some close up pictures how mine fits but it has to be after the Christmas holidays. Let me know if you require some pics.
The cabane struts on the ARF is also quite different than the kit.
Merry Christmas
Charles.
I can get you some close up pictures how mine fits but it has to be after the Christmas holidays. Let me know if you require some pics.
The cabane struts on the ARF is also quite different than the kit.
Merry Christmas
Charles.
12-23-2006, 04:25 PM
#464
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Varkiza, GREECE
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
OOOps
I've checked the plan carefuly and found out where the top side of the struts should mount.
So I guess that the bottom side will follow.
Sorry for the stupid question but thanks anyway Charles.
Thanos.
I've checked the plan carefuly and found out where the top side of the struts should mount.
So I guess that the bottom side will follow.
Sorry for the stupid question but thanks anyway Charles.
Thanos.
12-29-2006, 11:33 PM
#466
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: nor cal,
CA
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
Well I havent posted much on RC yet cause mainly I just read everything I just got the ultimate kit and am wating for it from tower All your guys info Is very helpfull and will be sweet I also think its very funny bout your Reef Talk Thats my other hobby also Im starting to think Reef and planes are hand and hand or mabey just still Coindence I love both tho The question I have is what you all Think about putting the 120ax for os on the ultimate I love glow still Havent really been a fan or glow four strokes but may try one still Because of all the sucess you guys have with the planes ..
12-30-2006, 09:21 AM
#467
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: mississauga,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
Rideblue......................the sound of a 4 stroke is what will change your mind. I just love 4 stroke engines, it's just my opionion. I got back to this hobby four years or so ago after a long, long spell and I only had two OS engines 2 strokes glow. After my few months on a trainer with a two stroke, I completly switched to 4 stroke and have never looked back to the noisy critters, don't care if they have more RPMs, to me the 4 strokes is the ultimate. You'll need a 4 stroke in the Ultimate and you'll enjoy it.
Good luck with your building of the kit.
Charles.
Good luck with your building of the kit.
Charles.
03-13-2007, 12:31 AM
#468
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
I'd like to hear what engines people are running in their ulti's and what performance they are getting. My 1.20 2 stroke now has a home and I'm trying to decide between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke. I think my idea of a 1.20 2 stroke would prove perfect with good throttle management but thirsty on fuel. I don't know of any ultimate's flying around my area.
03-13-2007, 03:27 AM
#469
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Vestby, NORWAY
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
I had a Os 1.20 4-stroke (basic version) on mine, and it did actually hover at about 3/4 throttle. It did not however recover vertival from hover, so I have bought a Saito 150 for my next build. It should be more than enough power! (Unfortunately, I have not had enough tine to finish this CG Ultimate yet, but hopefully over the summer... I'm finishing an 1,9m Ultimate in the meantime).
A friend of mine had an Os 1.08 in his Ultimate, but didn't really enjoy either sound nor performance. He changed to a 120 4-cycle, and did not regret the change!
With the heavier Os 4-cycle engines, I found that I had to put my battery way back to get the desired backwards CG. This is "essential" for those really fast snap-rolls and hover manouvers. Much more fun to fly with the CG as far back as one dares... (But DO get to know the plane with the correct CG position first!!!).
A friend of mine had an Os 1.08 in his Ultimate, but didn't really enjoy either sound nor performance. He changed to a 120 4-cycle, and did not regret the change!
With the heavier Os 4-cycle engines, I found that I had to put my battery way back to get the desired backwards CG. This is "essential" for those really fast snap-rolls and hover manouvers. Much more fun to fly with the CG as far back as one dares... (But DO get to know the plane with the correct CG position first!!!).
03-13-2007, 03:33 AM
#470
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
Thanks for that. Any one else??? I'm swaying more towards the 1.20 4 stroke. I've been a 2 stroke man for the last 15 years of flying.
03-13-2007, 03:38 AM
#471
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Vestby, NORWAY
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
A bipe "should" be flown with a 4-stroke... 
The only trouble with the 4-cycle engines (at least Os) is starting when temperatures are below freezing. It takes a while!! I've been flying in temp. of -15C, and it worked. Just had to pour some warm coffee over the engine prior to start!
The only trouble with the 4-cycle engines (at least Os) is starting when temperatures are below freezing. It takes a while!! I've been flying in temp. of -15C, and it worked. Just had to pour some warm coffee over the engine prior to start!
03-13-2007, 06:06 AM
#472
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NA, SINGAPORE
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
Baldrick,
I flew the ultimate in the 90's with a YS 120sc on 16x8 APC prop. Pre digital servos- JR 7005 low profiles for ailerons (put em facing up). battery pack behind the lower wing, with switch at the bottom as well. Lines of the ultimate is way too nice to place a switch on the fuselage sides. 01 servo each for elevator and rudder. It was still nose heavy and only required a touch of up whilst inverted. It was simply beautiful, no further trim needed.
If I were to do it again, it would be 02 elevator servos in the rear. Place your 120 two banger in there (a OS120ax and OS120FS has same footprint, I used a dave brown mount), if you're not happy with the performance replace with a four banger depending on all up weight a OS 120 to Saito 180. Mine was built light at 8.5 pounds (8 pounds mark was for a 60 size). It was decked out with cockpit, FG cowl, aftermarket landing gear.
Sorry no pictures, coz the guy who bought it from me wanted the photos as well. Cant find the negatives for it.
I flew the ultimate in the 90's with a YS 120sc on 16x8 APC prop. Pre digital servos- JR 7005 low profiles for ailerons (put em facing up). battery pack behind the lower wing, with switch at the bottom as well. Lines of the ultimate is way too nice to place a switch on the fuselage sides. 01 servo each for elevator and rudder. It was still nose heavy and only required a touch of up whilst inverted. It was simply beautiful, no further trim needed.
If I were to do it again, it would be 02 elevator servos in the rear. Place your 120 two banger in there (a OS120ax and OS120FS has same footprint, I used a dave brown mount), if you're not happy with the performance replace with a four banger depending on all up weight a OS 120 to Saito 180. Mine was built light at 8.5 pounds (8 pounds mark was for a 60 size). It was decked out with cockpit, FG cowl, aftermarket landing gear.
Sorry no pictures, coz the guy who bought it from me wanted the photos as well. Cant find the negatives for it.
03-13-2007, 08:43 AM
#474
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: mississauga,
ON, CANADA
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 build
Hi Baldrick from NZ ......................I have the Saito 1.20 4/stroke in my CG Ultimate. I've had no problems with this engine. Starts and runs like a charm, the sound of the Saito is truly of a 4 stroke. I'm not a cold weather flyer. Flying is more enjoyable in warmer weather condition, my opionion. The Saito 1.20 is more than enough for this 10 lbs. bi-plane. Good luck with your ultimate.
I just got back from a holiday in Vict. Melbourne Aus. and I was disappointed not being able to find a flying field open. Beautiful country though. Too bad for the drought they're going thru.
Charles.
I just got back from a holiday in Vict. Melbourne Aus. and I was disappointed not being able to find a flying field open. Beautiful country though. Too bad for the drought they're going thru.
Charles.