iflyfisher

I don't see any reason why you can't. I have a .91S mounted just shy of inverted in my Midwest Citabria. I purchased my Goldberg Ultimate from a guy who had framed it up and had the mounts already setup for horizontal. So I just went with what was there.

Crash Campbell

Hi iflyfisher,

I would suggest that you stay with the recommended throws. I found the manual settings spot on for how I like to fly, on high rates, (this isn't a 3D machine but flys the full pattern easily), but the CoG was very conservative. You will probably wan't to move it rearwards after the first few flights. I ended up with mine at 3" and with a Saito 125A did anyone say knife edge.

We are in the last week of our business with contracts exchanged and settlement on Thursday. I'm really looking forward to finishing off my second Ultimate following the untimely demise of the first throgh a "shoot down". Not to mention the Giant Su-do-khoi and the Big Hots. This time with a JR Spektrum radio to eliminate the possibility of this means of demise.

Good luck with the maiden,

Colin

kerrydel

My Feedback: (2)

I'm interested in this kit, but I'd like to find out from the group how this plane flies. I built a GP Super Skybolt, but it was short-lived (dumb thumbs - don't ask). I'm not overly heart broken over the lose. There was HORRIBLE rudder coupling on that plane. There was NO WAY to do a knife edge with it. Everything else seemed fine with it. It was my first bipe, so I don't know if I screwed something up. A flying buddy says his SIG Hog Bipe also has quite a bit of coupling too.

So, I'd know how good a flier this plane turns out to be? I'm sure it won't be as nice as my Yak 54, but I don't want a dog either.

Thanks for your input.

Kerry

iflyfisher

Kerrydel, I hope to give you a first hand report soon! Mine is all done and ready to go. Took a few pix of it this evening in the driveway.

kerrydel

My Feedback: (2)

Nice color scheme!

Kerry

Thinn

The CG Ultimate is a wonderful flier...! It has a rather long tail moment, so it tracks better than the average short-tailed bipes. Also, the knife-edge qualities are awsome... Just remember to have a strong enough servo on the rudder! (min.6-7kg).
There are not a lot of planes that are without couplings in knife-edge, but the CG Ultimate is one of the better ones... You might want to mix in a bit of elevator to the rudder, but it does not roll out too much. I flew my CG Ultimate rater on the tail-heavy side for better 3D, and that helped on the knife-edge tracking and straight downlines.
Normally I fly pattern (F3A) planes, but I still have 5 Ultimates in different sizes due to their extraordinary capabilities!
No, this plane is not a bad choice!

kerrydel

My Feedback: (2)

Good to hear. Thanks for the info.

Kerry

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

I would think I could get the CG Ultimate to 3D with the Saito 180 and a lightweight setup. Im thinking:

Saito 180
2800 lion RX pack
2x5945's (one for elevator one for rudder on a pull-pull)
2X5625s or 5945's for ailerons w/CF interlinks
1x81MG or similar mini throttle servo
Wood Vess prop

I have had both DP Ultimates, the WH 29% Ultimate and several other bipes. I have found the Ultimates tend to fly the same when setup correctly with weight being the largest difference between different versions. I have also found that I end up with a CG of the rear cabane mount or just slighly forward or aft.

It is too bad Dave Patrick never designed his ultimate as a kit. The goldberg is the only in this size available and was something he designed before hand.

iflyfisher

Well...the maiden was a bit of a bust this evening. I had a couple of issues that kept me grounded. I had set up my tank with a separate fill line using a fuel dot, but I had also put a one way valve on my pressure line to help keep pressure in the tank. Unfortunately, the one way valve wouldn't let the air in the tank escape when filling and the pressure would push the fuel out the fuel line to the carb. If I closed the throttle, the pressure in the tank limited filling the tank more than about 1/4 full. So I either need to put another fuel dot in the vent line or take out my one way check valve.

The other issue was getting the Saito 150 to unload so I could set the HS needle. I have an APC 16x8 prop installed, and I just couldn't get the RPMs much above 7k, regardless of the HS needle being open 8 turns or 4 turns. Occasionally it would bounce up above 8k. So I would drop the throttle and advance it again only to have the rpms max out around 7k. I really couldn't find the right mixture. I thought I was there once, then checked the position of the HS needle, and I was 6 turns out. So I guess I need to install a smaller prop to get the HS needle adjusted. I'm going to peruse Club Saito to get some ideas on props.

So about the only thing I accomplished was running the equivalent of 3 or 4 more tanks of fuel through a very rich Saito. Guess that isn't all bad. The maiden will wait for another day.

iflyfisher

Finally got my maiden in this afternoon. The plane rotated gently into the air without a hitch. Amazingly, it only needed a click of aileron. I have never had a maiden that flew with so little trim adjustment! The Saito 150 didn't hiccup once. I flew about 8 minutes doing some lazy eights and working into a few loops and finally some snaps. Loved the snaps, the plane stops rotation on a dime. I had the control throws set as recommended in the manual, but I didn't scale them back for the maiden flight like the manual recommends. I just flew on the low rates. At the low rates, the elevator was a bit weaker than I like, so I soon flipped the elevator rate to high. I kept the rudder and ailerons on the low rates. Even at low rate, the roll rate was very good. After 8 mins, I decided to bring her in. I was a little hot as I wasn't sure how the sink rate would be. It settled down nicely, but I hit a hole in our grass field and tore off my landing gear. So unless I hand launched, I was done for the day. The gear just ripped out clean. I had added an extra 1/4" ply plate below the stock plate originally used for the wire gear and added some larger angle pieces at the ends, but I guess that wasn't enough. The guys at the field were stunned the gear came off and suggested that I glass reinforce the area. Probably a good idea. So the Ultimate is grounded until I get the gear remounted.

Despite the unintentional gear retract, I call the maiden a success. The Ultimate flew great. The Saito 150 ran like a top. I think I'll have a lot of fun with this one going foward! Very glad you guys got me motivated to get it finished and into the air!

Ken

iflyfisher

Got my Ultimate's gear ready to be bolted back on again. I installed a new 1/4" inch mounting plate and reinforced the area, also glassing where the plate joins the fuse sides and the seam where the plate connects with my new belly section beneath the tank. While I was at it, I yanked the old stock firewall and installed a new 1/4" ply firewall and reinforced that area as well. Both are things I should have done originally, but I hated to mess up the covering if I didn't need to.

Question I have now is with regard to mounting bolts. I originally had the gear mounted with 8-32 bolts and was planning on using the same, but was wondering about going with nylon bolts. The grass field is fairly rough, and I don't want to be shearing nylon bolts continually, which is why I originally went with steel. I had no idea the entire mounting plate would pulled out though. The landing gear mounting area is significantly stronger now than it was, and I am leaning to going back with steel unless someone convinces me otherwise.

jb86

My Feedback: (8)

tough choice, there are reasons to go either way. use 1/4" nylon bolts, if possible, 2 on the leading edge of the plate and 1 or 2 to the rear, the wider the surface against the bottom of the fuse, the stronger, when it's narrow, it's easy to shear of.
so, the weak link is - bolts weaker than the plate mounting OR a plate mounting weaker than the bolts. tougher choice if you have pants on, they go into the sheeting. you can pratice your 3 point landings, the slower you're moving and in a 3 point attitude, less chance of breaking anything. the safest gear mount i've seen; a wide aluminum gear (maybe 2" or more wide) and dowels ahead of and behind it, then rubber bands to hold it on. dural gear are solid, just the nature of it.
jon

iflyfisher

Well, I ended up using steel bolts to mount the gear. Have had the bipe done for several weeks now, but I couldn't get good enough weather on a weekend to get out. Had the day off today. The weather wasn't great. Winds were 10-15 mph with occasional stronger gusts, and the weatherman said 30 percent chance of showers. I figger'd this could be the best I'll get until spring, so I loaded up the Ultimate and headed to the field. The Saito 150 fired without hesitation. I double checked the mixture, and she was ready. The wind was going straight across the runway away from me. The bipe bounced down the grass and gently lifted into the air. I flew about 9 minutes and decided to bring it in. Got back on the ground just fine, and the gear held! I fueled up and gave it a go again. But the wind was really picking up, and the gusts were pitching the bipe a bit more than I wanted. After about 5 or 6 minutes, I decided not to push my luck and decided to land. Crosswind landings are not my favorite, especially with a new plane and one with a fair amount of side area. I sort of approached the runway at an angle then straightened out prior to touching down. Got down without incident, but that was it for me for the day. Would liked to have pushed the envelope a bit more, but I'll wait for better weather to really dial it in. I did get two flights in, and I still have landing gear attached!!

Ken

plasticjoe

My Feedback: (22)

Was flying mine on saturday and had an elevator linkage break on takeoff.... it lifted off and then kinda hesitated about a foot off the ground. I thought it mighta been the engine sagging ? ... so I pulled back the throttle and then gunned it, and the Saito 150 roared as it dipped down to to ground, caught the gear in the grass, ripped them off, clipped a lower wingtip, ripped the bottom wing clean off, both wingmounts clean outa the fuse ( nice clean pull out ) then it rolled sideways and broke the top wing in half. It also rattled around the fuel tank and broke those mounts so all that had to be replaced. I worked on it some last night and all day today ( had today off work ) and have the fuse ready, linkaged made bullet proof I hope. Also have the lower wingtip repaired, to be sanded tomorrow, and almost done joining the top wing halves. Hopefully ready to recover the bad spots by Friday.

iflyfisher

Plasticjoe, sorry to hear about the mishap. Your repairs go much quicker than mine! Sounds like you will be back in the air soon. I guess there are a few of us around here flying these birds with 150's. Though I really haven't had a chance to wring mine out, it has power to spare. I have my radio set with a separate timer that counts the time I have the engine above half throttle. In my 9 minute flight, I had less than a minute above half throttle! The plane seemed to handle the big Saito just fine. Vertical performance was pretty amazing.

So what part of your elevator linkage broke?

plasticjoe

My Feedback: (22)

I have dual pushrods from the elevator halves going to a crosspiece that had a linkage from it to the servo... Here's my feeble attempt at a diagram LOL
The Sullivan brass linkage broke at the threads at the base of the link. The motion was all linear and no bad off angles to cause issue.

iflyfisher

Very similar setup to what I used on my Andrews Aeromaster, but I soldered a clevis to a pushrod, which was threaded on the other end and bolted the rod onto a homemade 1/4" ply crossbar. I have flown the heck out of that bipe, and have no issues with control linkage. On my Ultimate, I am running a servo for each elevator half. How are you setting up the linkage on the repair?

Animalppp

Hi All. First time posting here. Could not resist talking about my Ultimate Project.
Maybe someone can steer me in the right direction if my current thinking is wrong.

I have completed the build, just need to install engine and cover.
currently looking to go with gas, not nitro.
been looking at the evolution 26 GT with a tuned pipe.
??? weight doesn't seem to bad does it?
Sure you have to add the EI but thats only a few oz's and a batt.
But just think, double the HP!!! for almost the same weight.

evolution 26 (1.6)

thrust 16lbs
Type: 2-stroke Gasoline
Displacement: 1.55 cu in (25.50 cc)
Engine (Only) Weight: 936 g (33.6 oz)
Benchmark Prop: 18x6 @ 8,700
Prop Range: 16x8 - 18x8
RPM Range: 1,400 - 9,500
Fuel: Gas/Oil Mix 40:1
Mounting Dimensions: 146 x 70 x 99 mm
HP: 3.8 Ps @ 9,000 RPM
Cylinder Type: Ring
Carb Type: walbro 2-needle WT481
Crank Type: Ball Bearing

This is what i found for the OS 120 they suggest putting in this plane.

OS 1.20

SPECS:
Power Output: 2.1 BHP at 12,000 RPM
Practical RPM Range: 2,000 - 12,000 RPM
Weight-Without Muffler: 32.5oz (921g)
Weight-With Muffler: 35.3oz (1000g)
Length: 102mm (4.09") from backplate to the front of the drive washer
Width: 47mm (1.85") width of engine neglecting the mounting flanges
58mm (2.28") distance between the mounting hole centers
Height: 139.5mm (5.49")
Suggested Prop(s): 14X9, 14X10, 14X11, 15X8, 15X9, 15X10, 16X6,

Is this a good idea?

Here is a pic of SOME of my toys.

Animalppp

I have seen others looking for color schemes to put on the ultimate.
Here are some i have found the look cool.
I am also thinking about maybe a POKER scheme.
top wing left - HIGHSTAKES
top wing right - NO-LIMIT
bottom wing left - TEXAS
bottom wing right - HOLD-EM
on body, both sides - POKER
maybe some other details like ACES HIGH somewhere showing pocket aces.
OR i don't even fold laundry - showing 7-2 offsuit. lol

iflyfisher

Hi Animal,

I can't opine on the gasser as I am only flying glo. My Saito 150 turns a 16x8 APC at around 8700-8800 rpm and gives my Ultimate unlimited vertical. Even though I have only flown the bipe a handful of times, I usually fly it below half throttle. My all in weight is under 9.5 pounds. I really don't see how any more horsepower could be used without ripping the wings or tail feathers off. I've used OS 2 strokes, but stick with Saitos for my 4 strokes, so I can't say anything on the OS 120 either. This Saito 150 in my Ultimate is a really smooth running engine. Easy to start and great idle. Regardless which direction you go, make sure you replace the stock firewall with 1/4" or 5/16" ply and reinforce where it attaches to the fuse.

As you can see above, I did mine in yellow and white monokote. Very easy to see in the air. Lots of nice schemes out there.

plasticjoe

My Feedback: (22)

I used the same setup on the repair and instead of a 1/4" plywood cross bar, it's now a stainless steel tube crossbar and loctite all over the place. The link from the crossbar to the servo is now a steel link soldered to a pushrod with a heavy duty ball link to prevent any stress on the threaded part. ( I had the ball link in there before, just put a "beefier" one in there now ) I run Spektrum so no worries about steel to steel "noise"
I included a "pre-crash" pic LOL

Garthwood

iflyfisher.........................congrats....... .........you were wise to land that baby. Feels great [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

Nice color scheme, very visible color up there.
Read your Fuel Dot issue. I have one too, here it is: I'm running a third line in my tank 16 ozs.

(1) Vent line to Muffler, no hook ups in between this line. Aimed upwards in tank.
(2) Pick-up line to Carb. Fuel filter in between. Clunk to the rear of tank.
(3) Third line Fuel-Dot, brass tubing aimed downwards to the bottom of the tank, at the front of the tank. This line is used to fuel up and to empty the tank, when emptying nose have to be down. This line is plugged after fuelling.

Issue: At the beginning of fueling up the first 3 to 4 turns of the fueler, fuel is coming out of the muffler, it then stops and continues to fill the tank. I know for certain that fuel is going in, when it reaches the top the excess fuel is coming out of the muffler, which is normal.

The instructions shows that I should have a T connection with a plug. Plug to be disconnected during fueling, but to make sure to plug it back in so that tank remains pressurized during flight. It is not effecting the flights.

Anybody had such a problem like this ? Please comment.

Charles.

Animalppp

I have used a fuel dot for about 2 years now. But i only use it on a two line system.
one line from the exhaust to the tank, brass tube bent up into the top of the tank.
the other line is from the clunker in rear of tank, out of the tank to the fuel dot, and then
from the fuel dot to the carb.

the odd time i have found starting issues like not being able to get a prime, but i just
re-insert the fill line from my flight box in and out of the fuel dot a couple of times and all
is fine again. I think the valve in the dot gets stuck open sometimes.

anyway, this works very well for me, the dot valve shuts off the fuel to the carb while it fills the tank.
no fuel comes out of exhaust when i start fueling. when the tank is full i can notice a diff in the pump
sound, (it slows a little as it bears down due to the extra restriction of pumping the fuel into the exhaust now
that the tank is full. I don't need to look under the plane to see if fuel is leaking out to know when its full.
Just shut is off as soon as the pump sound changes and your good. Only a few drops end up coming out the
exhaust.

If your issue continues, and its fuel waste/cost the bothers you, i have seen some guys pull the exhaust line off
and run it into a small fuel bottle to catch the over flowed fuel. At 30 bucks a gallon i can understand why. lol
But like i said, i only lose a couple drops using the electric fuel pump.

Animalppp

As for soldering pull pull cables, i drilled a 1/16th hole into my building board so i could thread the coupler into the wood.
This holds the coupler upright, and being wood it allows you to heat the coupler up fast and it holds its heat longer than
using metal pliers.
While its held upright, i rest the iron against one side of the coupler and when its hot enough i touch the solder to the top
of the coupler hole. When its full of solder i stick the cable in and remove the heat.

Garthwood

animalppp.....................I think you are confusing the KWIK fill fueling valve with the Fuel Dot. They are totally different.
You are referring to the Du-Bro or Great Planes Fueling Valves where you insert a probe into the valve and fuel line to carb is automatically shut off. When the probe is removed, fuel flows through valve to carb.
The Fuel Dot that I am referring to is just one line from the fuel tank, one end goes into the tank, directed down and to the front of the tank the other end is used to fuel up and when fueling is completed you plug that end. It is made by Bisson Custom Mufflers. It's used for fueling and draining for in-cowl engines. Although you can also use the one that you have for in-cowl engines.


The one that you have, has the tendency to leak. The problem that you are encountering is the little spring inside is sticking, you need to change the O ring and spring. There're rebuild kits for those fueling valves. Just watch it, best to replace it. Inserting the probe into the valve can sometimes damage the O ring, and the spring to collapse. I know because I have rebuilt one this season.

Charles.