iflyfisher

Charles. Thanks for the compliments. On the fuel dot issue. I am also running three lines from the tank. The clunk line goes to the carb, a fill line setup like yours going to a fuel dot, but my vent line has a T with one line going to the muffler and the other going to another fuel dot. When I fill, I put a small catch bottle like Animal mentioned on the vent fuel dot line, attach my pump to the fill line, and pinch the vent line down by the exhaust. If the throttle slide is completely closed, the tank will fill and overflow into my catch bottle. I am not clear on how you get fuel coming out of your exhaust the first few turns when your vent line should be at the top of the tank. I don't see how fuel can get up to the vent line unless you have some of your lines crossed up. I guess you could also have fuel in your vent line left over from the last time you drained the tank. Then when you fill, the air pressure in the tank from fuel going in pushes this fuel in your line out to the muffler. Hmmm.

I have a fuel dot on my Aeromaster on a two line system. There I have a T in the line to the carb. I ensure the carb is closed or pinch the line at the carb end with forceps when filling. This has worked great. My extra fuel dot ended up on the Ultimate plumbing as I installed a one way check valve in the exhaust line. Whatever you do, don't add a one way valve. I realized I was overpressurizing the tank so much the carb couldn't manage the fuel flow. Once I pulled the one way check valve, I really didn't need the fuel dot to release the pressure in the tank while filling, but as it was already there, I just kept it.

Animal, on the soldering, be careful with that technique as you could end up with a cold solder joint as the cable isn't hot when you dip it in the coupler filled with solder. I always put the cable or rod in the coupler and heat both at the same time. Solder then wicks in, and I will let it wick in until the coupler is full. I think this type of a solder joint is less likely to fail.

Plasticjoe, nice bipe! How did Snoopy fair the mishap?

Ken

plasticjoe

My Feedback: (22)

Snoopy survived without a scratch... tonight I reset 2 ribs in the top and bottom wings... one end of each interplane struts snapped the tabs off... once that all sets up tonight... I'll fill all the gaps and sand friday on my day off and maybe start covering friday or saturday.... Overall it could have been worse

Animalppp

hey fisher, you still think that the joint i use would be too cold if you first tin the cable?

I forgot to mention that i flux the cable, put solder on the iron, touch it to cable and tin it.
the solder wicks into the cable fine at this step. But then ya, i just heat the coupler and fill it
then dip the cable into the solder pool that is inside.

iflyfisher

Animal, I am a finance guy by profession, so any non-finance information you get from me is probably worth what you pay for it. For that matter, the same probably goes for any finance info as well I would think because you have tinned the wire beforehand, the small diameter of the wire used for pull/pull systems, and the high amount of residual heat in your coupler from the melted solder, you are fine. If you solder bigger wire or actual control rods, I'd make sure to heat both the wire/rod and clevis/coupler at the same time. Similar to you, I have a scrap block of wood with a hole drilled in it to hold my coupler or clevis. Using vice grips or pliers to hold the coupler saps the heat and shouldn't be used.

Animalppp

lol, ok fisher. This is my first kit build so your help or anyone elses is greatly appreciated at any cost. Thanks for the input. I will surely heat both together in the future. I have done a few ARF's but this is my first attemp at a Pull Pull system. I have learned alot in setting this one up. Never thought it would be so tricky to get two cables to pull a dam rudder. lol.

evdo

So much good info on this thread - it's been a while but i'm planning to maiden mine next week - fa-125, ~9 1/2 lbs.. was wondering if i should go with a 16x6 or 15x8. i'm leaning towards the 15x8 but i figure i'd throw the question out there???

On that fuel issue - I'm running the same 3 line system i suspect the fuel running out the muffler is just a compression/vacuum thing that works itself out as you fuel.. i'll have to make note of it when i fuel up again.. interesting....

-Tom

Garthwood

iflyfisher....Tom.... I've solved the fuel issue (Fuel Dot, three line) yesterday. My Ultimate was due to be checked out before storing it away for the winter. Removed the bottom wing, opened up the bottom front hatch, removed all the lines. What I found that the fuel tank cap was quite lose with vibration, causing one of the brass tubing to turn. I tested this with the tank off the plane and on a table, clamping the carb. line, attaching the vent to a muffler, and using the Fuel Dot line to fill the tank. Problem solved. It's always a good idea to do maintenance. It could have been compression/vacuum thing like you mentioned causing the cap to losen up. I have replaced the cap with one that have an inside metal plate instead of the nylon, with tightening the screw always strips the plate. While at it I replaced all fuel tubing, it is now ready to go next season, which Thank God it is only four months away, meanwhile I can fly my electric wing.

My Ultimate Blue Hawk has the Saito 120 and an APC 16 X 7 prop, 3" Aluminum DB Spinner. I've tested the 16 x 8 as well. Both of these props I like the most with my kind of flying. My spinner is a Dave Brown with the X-Long prop nut for 8mmx1.25mm shaft.
The 16x7, 16x8s when using this spinner: Note that the spinner requires the holes to be modified to fit the wider hub. Specify the prop size and for an extra few $$ DB will do it for you. I know a couple of guys that have this Ultimate and they lean towards those two sizes that I've mentioned. I keep extra of these two sizes in my tool box.

Charles.

iflyfisher

Charles, kind of sad to be putting the plane away for the winter, eh? (that and washroom are about the only Canadian I know) I'll be doing the same here soon. I am hoping I may get lucky over Thanksgiving break and be able to get in some stick time, but weather is really crappy in Michigan now. I also know what you mean with the electric wing. I have a Zagi 400x converted to a mega brushless and lipos. That bird flat out boogies now, and I will fly it in most any wind. In fact after I cut short the second flight of my Ultimate last week, I cleaned it up then pulled out the Zagi. I put two ten minute flights on it with wind gusting and tossing it all over the place. Great fun. I've got an electric hydroplane I put together over the summer that should fly just as well off snow as water. So I hope not to stay grounded as I was all last winter.

Tom, 9.5 pounds is the same as my Ultimate. Seemed to fly great at that weight. Be sure to let us know how the 125S works out. I don't have one of those engines, but I almost wish I had a kit to build to put one in. I have heard so many good things about it.

Ken

Garthwood

Ken................My Delta wing is a foamy ElectraJet by E-Flite, flys really wild or smooth. It's a wing that can be tossed in a truck with the rest, does not take too much room and it's always ready to go. I might upgrade the motor and speed controller, hoping to attend Toledo next year and pick up something from there, there's always good deals down there. This year I picked up a Saito 100 brand new for a really good price. I have it in my U-CAN-DO .60, which I finished putting together last week, needs to be balanced. I don't think I'll bother to test fly at this stage. I've seen the Zagis fly, a few guys learned how to fly with those wings. These guys fly stricktly electrics, they are a different group that have lots of fun flying foamy warbirds, and they can go fast. There are some really good foamy war birds ducted fan jets. Reasonably priced too. But myself I love the sound of a 4 stroke and the smell of fuel. If you ever been to a Jet Rally you know what i mean, the sound of a Jet Turbine on take off....Wow...One of my flying buddies flys Jet Turbines, he is the dealer of Behotec Turbines. In my Sea Fury I'm going to install Behotec retracts.

My Ultimate weighs 10.0lbs. but I upgraded all the hardware and have a 5 cell 1400mah nicd. Attached pictures of Delta Wing E-Flite, CG Ultimate 10-300 BLUE HAWK, and Behotec retracts.

iflyfisher

Fun stuff Charles. I dropped pneumatics in a Royal Spitfire I have, but those are Robart. I am also running a 5 cell pack in my Ultimate but it is 1100 mah. Only been around jets once, and it was a very testosterone experience! I'm not into the go fast and turn style of flying myself, so I have never really caught that bug.

mono wing

I'm working on my CG 10-300 now and read in here where somebody had to move there fire wall back.
I am going to use a saito 150 and Dubro vibration mounts Areo FiberTech cowel and pants for my build and wanted to know if anyone else needed to move there fire wall back to use a 150 ?

Garthwood

A friend of mine has the Saito 150 installed on his Ultimate, built from a kit. I do not think that he had to move the firewall back. I do remember him saying that it was quite nose heavy with the 150.

Charles.

mono wing

Thanks Garthwood.
I'm building the fuse now and I did some measuring like the instructions say for mounting the engine and it looks like I will have to move the fire wall back about 7/8" using the 150 and the dubro vibration mount in order to keep within the plans outline for the prop washer thru the cowel [:@]
I was wondering if any one else had too. The 150 and the 120 are supposed to be the same in size.
The reason I went with the 150 was for the extra hp I planed on installing a smoke system.

Garthwood

My Ultimate 10-300 is the Blue Hawk ARF. The dimentions are the same and I did'nt need to move the firewall to install my Saito 120. I have the adjustable engine mount on mine and works pretty good. The cowl fits nicely and the Saito 120 is more than enough for this size. Mine weighs a bit under the 10 lbs. range. All the hardware was updated to 4-40 pushrods, 6 servos, 6v-5cell battery. All hinge lines sealed. Has 16 ozs. fuel tank sitting in the front, with the battery secured just under the rear of the tank. 7/8ths is quite a bit to move back your firewall. Your problem might be the size of your engine mount. At first I was going to install the Du-Bro soft vibration mount, but I hand to consider the added weight. I opted to keep the weight down, considering that the adjustable mount is quite heavy duty for the 120. You'll have to work this out as you build keeping in mind how the cowl will fit.

Charles.

mono wing

Thank's Charles I had a feeling that the mount is probably going to be an issue since the dubro soft mount is rather large. I did not realize how big it was by the Tower ad when I bought it .
It looks like I will be getting a new mount .
who's are you using Great plane's ?

Bill

Garthwood

Yes, it is the Great Planes one that was part of the kit. My flying buddy who has the Ultimate kit with the 150 has the same mount. It is a great engine and sounds quite nice. I'm quite please with my Saito 120, fuel is PowerMaster 15/20 all syn. After your first few initial flights I suggest you check out all your bolts and screws. What I normally do is remove the cowl and check the engine and the mount for tightness. I use nylon washers with the cowl screws. On the engine mount I use one flat and one split washer to secure to the firewall. To secure the engine I use head bolts.

Charles.

mono wing

Thank you for the advise Charles do you know if there is any excessive vibration with the 150 to the air frame?
This was the reason for going the the dubro mount . I have never had a 4 stroke before and what I was told is that there was a lot of vibration with them.

Bill

Garthwood

Hi Bill..................I got back to modeling about 5 years ago from a long period of building models. I only had two two stroke engines although I liked them I just did'nt like the way they sounded. For the past 4 yrs. I only flew 4 strokes and only Saitos. I love their sound and their simplicity and of course their reliability. Like any other engine nitro, two strokes or four strokes, you'll always encounter vibration. Considering the size of the 150 or the 120 Saitos their vibration is quite normal. Again I don't have the 150 and I never noticed excessive vibration with my friend's Ultimate. There are people who don't like 4 strokes, they just got used to the two strokes, so you will always going to encounter such negative response. Enjoy your Ultimate, the Saito 150 has beautiful sound you'll love it.

Charles.

iflyfisher

Hi Mono Wing, time to change your alias!!

As you have read, I just finished up my Ultimate with a Saito 150 a few months ago. I used a Dave Brown mount and have the Saito set back to the firewall as far as it will go. I did not move the firewall back nor add weight to the tail. But, I did have to slide my 5 cell battery pack down the fuse toward the tail a bit, though, to get the cg right. The battery is mounted on a 1/8" ply stick that slides down the fuse into a slot and is screwed down to a block mounted to the former just above the lower wing. I got the CG spot on this way. I have never used the Dubro soft mounts, but if that mount has the engine much ahead of the firewall, you will have cg issues.

Regarding the vibration. There may be more on the 150 than a 120, but I don't think it is a whole lot more. Make sure you toss the light ply firewall and put in a good 1/4" or 5/16" ply firewall and reinforce it well.

You will love the Ultimate with the Saito 150. I have only flown mine a handful of times, but it was great fun!

I'd be happy to help out where I can. Let me know.

Ken

mono wing

Ya I think your right Thanks for the help Ken I did replace the fire wall with good 1/4 plywood.
I am going to have to get me a new mount. The dubro soft mount looks like it might really work for getting rid of some vibration.
But the size of this thing for the 120 size is a bit much over all height 3 1/2 thickness of the feet that sit against the fire wall 1 3/16.
thickness of the beams that the motor mounts to 3/8 wide. thickness of beams 5/8 and tapers to 3/8
over all lenght about 4 1/4

I ordered it after reading and seeing tuwoods pic's for his rebuild after the crash. I wonder how his worked out [sm=confused.gif]

Animalppp

hi guys, just wanted to say a few words about my ultimate build and how my engine choice seams to be working out.

i weighted my 10-300 built, with landing gear, wheels, canopy, cowl, but minus the engine, batts and fuel tank.
4.5 lbs

planned evolution 26gt2 engine looks like it will come in around
2 lbs

did a test balance and it looks like i will balance 100% fine with a 2 lb engine on the nose.
so batts, ignition etc will likely just be placed on the CG.

weighed my tank, batteries etc and added 6 ozs for the ignition and am around another
2lbs

Thats only 8.5 lbs before covering.

is covering that heavy or am i missing something?
can't see how i could come under the weight you guys are talking about while going with a gas engine.

Anyway, it looks like the evolution 26 should pull around 14 to 16 lbs thrust so if my thoughts are right
i should have 3D power with this setup.

as for exhaust, i am looking at either the alum or carbon fiber tuned pipe.
likely the CF due to a reported weight of just over 2 ozs

Lastly, if i go with this setup, does anyone have a clue if i can route the tuned pipe inside the fuse?
I really don't want it hanging under the plane. What header might i need to do this and can it be done
with the engine on its side or does it need to go on a angle with the head facing down on a 45.

I saw a really cool looking header pipe on a site awhile back but forget where. It had one or two ball
joints that allowed you to bend it around anyway you needed then solder the joints to seal them and
keep them in place. If anyone knows of this site, send me a link will ya. I may need to use one of them
to allow routing the pipe inside the fuse.

mono wing

Yes you can look on page 45 of the instruction book and they show you a way to do it

mono wing

I tried to post page 45 for you but I couldn't figure out how to get it from adobe to somthing I could post for you [:@]
Sorry about that animal.


Bill

iflyfisher

Animal,

My kit Ultimate was built fairly light, and I came in at 9.5 pounds all in with glass cowl and pants, aluminum gear, and a 2 pound Saito 150. I covered in monokote. I wouldn't be surprised if your covering and paint add 12 to 16 ounces. I think a roll of monokote weighs 3 or 4 ounces and paint will add up quickly unless you are careful. I don't know what mine weighed before I covered it. But I was at about 8.5 pounds without painting my cowl and paints and buttoning everything up. Painting the fiberglass, adding the rx, switches, a few linkages, plumbing, and all the little misc stuff to get it all buttoned raised the weight another pound. I guess how close you get to 9.5 pounds will depend on how much of all the little misc stuff you included when measuring and how light you are with the film and paint. Be prepared to move the battery aft a bit to get it balanced unless your gasser has a more rearward cg than my Saito.

Let us know!

Animalppp

ah ha. I knew i saw this done somewhere before but could not find it in the book. After reading your message i checked page 45, and it was not there. As it turns out, my instrustions had this included on a separate page that was not part of the booklet. Only bummer is, i made a hatch on the side of the fuse for changing batt etc without removing the wing. I thought i was making it on the left side of the plane but after completing it noticed the plane was upside down so its on the right side of the plane now. lol. This may be in the way of the pipe so i will have to move it to the left side.