FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

The aileron linkage you have shows a set screw cable lock type fastener on the servo horn. I would not recommend using that when you fly. Use a solder on clevis for a more positive anchor, as they are much more positive / less likely to slip or loosen.

tuwood

I was wondering when somebody was going to notice that.
I had used those connectors successfully on my smaller planes and initially was going to use them on this, but I figured with the extra size & torque I would be pressing my luck.
I plan to buy a 4-40 die set & thread the servo side of the pushrod and use dubro ball links. I just used the E/Z links to line up the linkages because I haven't bought the ball links yet.

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

You may have trouble threading the rods. The factory threads on metal control rods are "rolled", which raises the threaded area higher than the diameter of the rod. If you try to cut your own threads, they will not be as high (as deep a bite) as needed. Get out the soldering iron and be done with it.. BTW, if you don't already have the solder clevises, you may be able to use the threaded ones to solder with. If they are too tight to slip on, drill out same dia as rod.

The other option is to use carbon rods with glue in titanium ends. Then you can use the ball ends you mention.

tuwood

Well, that's certainly some good food for thought. I'm pretty much committed to the ball links because I mounted the control horn slightly offset from the servo horn due to the ball link mounting on the outside of the servo. If I went with a standard clevis it would bind somewhat now.
I'll certainly have some options to play with & will post my end results.

captinjohn

I know another guy who is building his 3RD Ultimate bipe!!!!

tuwood

I made a trip to the LHS today and picked up the Dubro pull-pull system. I think I'll be a lot more comfortable with the crimps on the cable versus solder holding a thin wire in a connector such as the stock system.

I see exactly what you mean about the rolled threads on the pushrod's so if I were to run a die over it the threads wouldn't be very deep. Thanks for that, you saved me some money on a die set!
I talked with a couple of the builders at the LHS & they recommended that I solder on the threaded couplers on the end of my pushrod's & then I can use the ball links.

I certainly found one huge difference with the Ultimate versus my SSE I built. on the SSE the servo tray was pre-built & I just had to mount them whereas on the Ultimate I'm on my own.
I mentioned earlier that I'm going with the dual elevator servo's & have the general servo tray layout drawn on some aircraft ply. I also installed the elevator linkages so I could test the alignment.

Bobman

My Feedback: (5)

Tony,

Check out some Hanger Nine accesories before you go making the short aileron pushrods. They make a nice set of turnbuckle (threaded both sides) rods in a variety of lengths (I believe to 6") that would allow you to thread your ball-links on both ends. Also, if you don't mind going metric, check out the RC Car fittings as they have similar ones as well. Not that I have anything against soldering couplers....

Lookin' good!

Bob

tuwood

Thanks for the tip Bob. I saw that my LHS had 2-56 full threaded rod's but they didn't have any in 4-40. I was considering ordering some of these: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXFV03&P=7 which would accomplish the same thing.
I might see how the solder joints go & then take it from there. I used to do a lot of soldering back in my Navy days so I should be OK.

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

If you have problems getting the DuBro cable to loop through the crimp collar three times, you can strip off the plastic coating with a razor blade.

Garthwood

tuwood..................doing a great job with you Ultimate build. Came across this thread and had to read through it. Excellent.
I'm assembling the ARF version of the Ultimate. Did a few mods. Regarding the pull-pull rudder I double crimp. The first crimp is looped inside the brass tube (short piece of fuel brass tubing) and then crimpled, the second crimp is there for security. Got this advise from a friend of flies turbines. I have at t ached some pics. Also I've attached a pic of the throttle connections (ball links).
[img][/img]

Garthwood

truwood...........here's more pics of the ARF version that I'm assembling. Used 4-40 all the way. Hardly used any of the hardware supplied. [img][/img] the elevator servos installed in the back. I opened up the bottom of the ARF so I'll be able to install the servo platforms. You can also see that the pull-pull wire was crossed over, corner to corner to eliminate any slack.

Garthwood

tuwood

Thanks for the compliment.

I appreciate the pictures and have a couple questions; What Saito engine are you running & are you going to have to add nose weight to accomodate the rear elevator servo's. I'm not sure if my 1.25 is considered heavy or light for this airframe.

From a pushrod flex standpoint, I really want to put my elevator servo's in the tail but I'm worried about the CG and certainly want to avoid adding dead weight if at all possible. I may just put the wings & engine on to see how much of a CG hit I'll be looking at with the servo's in the tail.

Tony

Garthwood

Tuwood.................that's the Saito 1.20, at first I thought adding the two servos to the tail will counter the engine's weight. I was wrong, I have to add more nose weight. How much weight I have to add, I really don't know at this stage. I moved my 1400mah rx battery under the tank. The tank is a 16 oz. supplied. I might have to add about 8 ozs. Without any weight added, it weighs about 9lbs 8ozs. The Saito 1.20 is just right for this plane. The Saito 1.25 is about the same weight, but has more power. This Ultimate has a long fuselage, and most guys were putting the twin elevator servos in the tail. The Saito 1.20 is a 2.2 hp. lots of power.
The best thing is to check the threads and see what other Ultimate owners done with their tail servos, what choices. There's a thread on rcu under "CG Ultimate engine mounting", I think it is mentioned somewhere in there. I'm a long ways from doing 3D on this biplane, I just like the way it flies. If you have any questions, just ask.

Garthwood

tuwood

Thanks for the info Garthwood. I pretty much figured out tonight what you just stated. If I want the servo's in the tail then I have to add a bunch of nose weight.
I wouldn't exactly say I'm a 3D pilot either, but I want to keep it as light as I can in case I get brave.

I spent an hour or so assembling the wing & throwing in as much realistic weight as I could & then put it on my CG machine. with the Servo's in the middle it balanced perfectly @ 2.5" & with the servo's in the tail it took a lot of weight in the nose to balance it. So, long story short; the servo's are going in the belly.

After I spent about 30 minutes thinking how cool this plane looks when it's put together I went to work on the Servo tray. I did the standard aircraft ply & backed the screwholes with Basswood.

Garthwood

Tony...............nice job you are doing there. Sometimes it is good to make your own decisions. I could have gone that same route, but I was influenced by pilots who owned this particular model and put up with the added few ozs. I calculated that I need to add about 12 ozs. at the C of G of 2 inches, I am going half way to what they recommend for flight testing and then go from there. I have roughly balanced it on my fingers from the bottom wing. I have the Great Planes balancing machine, but I'm not so sure I'll be able to use it. For your servo tray I would use aircraft ply instead of the regular white ply (fuselage) kind, it has the tendency to warp, you want something that keeps straight. I think the ARF was supplied with 1/8th. 3/ply a/c ply. I added small blocks in the bottom for added screw grip. With this added weight the wing loading will still be ok. Light or not, this model still need some power on landing. I have the Waco YMF-3 1/6th. scale with a Saito 91 4/stroke, it is quite different than the Ultimate, but it is a joy to fly. It barrel rolls and wide loops. I flew it about four times last year, it took me about a year on and off to complete, so it is kind of a baby. The top wing spans 60 inches, but has a short fuselage. The Ultimate has a shorter wing span but longer fuselage. The Waco is a lazy flyer compared to the Ultimate. It was fun to build. It is a Pica model. There are pictures of my model on RCSCALEBUILDER.COM .
It is white with red trim.
Good luck with the build and continue taking progress pics.

Garthwood

tuwood

It probably doesn't look like it in the pictures but I am using aircraft ply with basswood mounts on the servo tray. I think it's 1/8", but I'm not sure.

If you notice in the picture I had to prop the front of my GP balancing machine up so it would clear the top wing. I balanced my first couple planes with my fingers & had a hairy maiden on my SSE & bought the CG machine. I was almost an inch off from where I thought it was, so I'm a devout CG machine user now.

Garthwood

Hi Tony................I normally use the CG Balancing machine. I'm going to look closly to your picture. I thought if you are going to balance it upside down, that the balancing machine is resting on the top wing. I know that the manual suggests to balance the aircraft upside down, it is not quite clear if it's upside down on the bottom wing the way you have or upside on the top wing.
The ARF's top wing attachment, the top two screws that attaches to the cabane is something else. Very time consuming to attach at the field. I have to make some kind of a mod. Probably a hardwood block with a blind nut. The block will be epoxed to the top of the cabine's front strut and back strut. The kit is designed with a wire from the leading edge, if I'm not mistaking.[img][/img]

tuwood

with the front of my CG machine propped up a couple inches (i used a sanding bar) the supports cleared the top wing (at the bottom) by a couple inches & it was swinging freely.

If you download the kit manual from http://www.carlgoldbergproducts.com/ultimate.htm it has some decent pictures of how the top wing attaches on page 21. As you can tell from earlier posts it's not ideal either because it's tough to get the pin to line up with the rear attachment.

gunfighterII

Hi Tony,
I just discovered your build, this plane is on my list of projects in the future. You will be very happy with how it fly's.
If you wish to locate your servo's up front, take a look at carbon fiber pushrods with titanium ends from central hobbies, I now use carbon on all pushrods, a little more expensive but well worth it. Positively no slop!

Garthwood

tony.............the ARF version top wing attachment over the cabanes is different than the kit's version. It is the most ridiculous method to attach a wing. Even a child that has small hands will find difficulties to attach two 4-40 head bolts that has to be locked with lock nuts inside two recesses of the underside of the top wing. CG should modify this part of the ARF version, including the manual that comes with it. The manual must be quite old. I have to modify this part of the top wing installation. Eventually I have to take a picture of this . Takes too much time to assemble at the field.

tuwood

I spent tonight playing with the elevator and rudder control's.
On the pull-pull system I ended up crimping them and I soldered a brass bushing behind the crimp. That should keep it from coming loose.

I do have a question about the pull-pull cable. I have read that it's better to cross them and noticed that if I do that (like in the pictures) the cables rub in the middle. Do I just let them rub, or do I put something between them?

Oh, and the E/Z connectors on the elevator servo's are temporary until my ball links come in.

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

Hey Tony, I've been working on our club's web site and helping some newbies so I'm behind. I thought I was going to finish before you[X(]
How reliable are the ball links? I used Golden Rod for the elevator halves and I'll get the Sullivan kevlar pull pull for the rudder. I've started using "U" bends on my servo connections (pictures later) that are a lot more snug than "Z" bends. I'll never make another "Z" bend!
In my application with the engine mounted at 135 degrees I mounted my throttle servo upside down which gave me a straight line to the engine (again, pictures later).
I'm not a fan on the control horns on the elevators but I'm new so what can you tell me about them? I had a CG Extra with them that I sold before I flew it. I really like the rudder horns, who makes those?

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

Oh, I forgot, I have a Saito 91 and I heard that they spray fuel out of the carb. I had the cowl off tuning the low end (just broken in) and they were right. When priming and turning it was spaying fuel so I ordered 3 velocity stacks. I don't know if it will fit the 125 but I'll let you know but one is of coarse for the 91 and the other two are for the 125s for the two Ultimates. If the 125 spits fuel like the 91 you'll definitely want to order one from Horizon for about $7. I also picked up some air filters that slip right on the velocity stack because I fly off grass (actually in this drought it's more like dirt). BTW, none of my Saito 120s spray fuel in the cowls because they have the velocity stack.

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

Tuwood, if we put the servos in the back it would kill our weight and balance because the Saito 125 is a lot lighter than the 120. I was going with the 120 in my Ultimate and an OS 120 in the other one but one the Saito 125 came out I talked my brother into buying one with me. I'm hope to be able to bring the power to weight ratio closer to what it is with the YS 110 or 120 because I know this plane is capable of almost anything with the YS 120 combo. On the next one I might try your carbon rod idea, thanks

Thinn

Nice building jobs! Looking forward to seeing some finished-photos!
I just crashed my CG Ultimate after 11years and approx 2-300 flights... It was powered by an Os 1.20, and hovered on 3/4 throttle.

Now I'm building another one (I just LOVED that plane!!), and have to buy a new engine due to the sudden ice-impact of the old one!
I see you are using the Saito 1.25. I am curious as to how the Saito 150 would fit into the model? It is theoretically only 150g heavier, and should produce enough power to pull the Ultimate out of hover??
Anyone tried this combo, or has experience with the 150? How is the Os - Saito comparison with regards to temperatures below -5C? (The Os was a handful to start below 0C, but worked well with a starter). I've never owned a Saito, så I'm just curios....
I am a bit afraid of the vibrations, as rumours say the 180 has a vibration problem.