FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

You know, for a pretty straight-forward build, this kit has taken me a long time to build. I've made a few mods, but nothing major (dual aileron servos, new firewall, aluminum LG, different tailwheel assy.). I've heard from others that breezed through this kit in a short time, but I'm dragging butt on it. I put the Monokote on the interplane struts over the last couple days, and finally got it to lay down to "acceptable" (a couple small wrinkles). I dyed my canopy and got the frame details painted. Pull-pull cables cut/soldered, etc. Modified the exit holes for the cables due to horn locations and servo locations... The list goes on. I can't wait to fly this puppy!!! I was covering my wing and had some masking tape laid out for a guide. When I removed the tape it ripped the Monokote through one of the open bays in the wing (Ughhh!!). Hope ya'll are having a better day than I am!!

tuwood

I was able to drill the mounting holes in the bottom wing & yes I went a little overboard to make sure it was straight. I'm laughing while looking at the picture of my precision setup. hehe.

I certainly owe a big thanks to rangerman & FlyingPilgrim for their advice.

I took rangerman's advice & installed the fuel tank & started on the control linkage before sheeting the top of the fuse. I have been flipping & maneuvering the fuse like crazy so I couldn't imagine how difficult all this would be after the top was sheeted.
**edit, I also took the advice to flip the carb over so the high end adjustment sticks out the top.

I used FlyingPilgrim's advice to point me in the right direction with the flex cable on the throttle. I couldn't figure out a good clevis to use that wouldn't get in the way so I decided to use an E/Z connector. I soldered the end of the cable to make it rigid & then dremel'd it down a little so it would fit in the E/Z connector. It works great!!! very smooth & no binding.

As you can also see, I mounted the engine & ran the fuel line's as well. I put in a GP easy fueler valve as well. I have never used one before so I tried to keep it inline as best I could. Hopefully it will work there.
I'm also going to try & run the exhaust down the center as I have it positioned. I don't have the cowl yet so I'm not sure how it will fit. I'm guessing that it will almost completely enclosed how I have it & I'll have to put a small extender on the bottom to point it down & out the cowl.

Do you guys think the fuel tank will be ok slanted like that or should I cut some of the top former & raise the back end to level it out?

tuwood

I was expecting the build to be harder than it was because everyone says the SSE's are so easy compared to others. Other than some short comings in the manual I haven't ran into anything I would consider complex. I certainly spent a lot of time on the wings, but hey it's a bipe so there's going to be a fair amount of time spent on the wings!

On my SSE, I had just finished one of the wings & was using a heat gun to stretch out some wrinkles in the monokote & accidently burnt a hole through it... doh!
I'm thinking about trying Ultracote on this build. Everyone seems to claim it's easier to use so I figure I'll give it a shot and then I can decide which I like better. Mono or Ultra.

Do you have a scheme picked out for your covering? I'm still thinking about the black & yellow similar to the scale pictures I posted earlier but I'm having second thoughts & might try a lighter color. I better figure it out pretty soon.

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

Your build looks like it's coming along nicely. As far as your tank, you can cut that former out and mount your tank level. The main thing is to keep the tank center close to centerline of your carb (1/4" below, ideally). Here is a pic of how I made my tank tray to secure it to the upright former. The Tettra (sp?) tank just clears that former that is interfering on your plane. I usually only cut holes in firewall large enough for the flex lines to go through, but in this case I had to cut a 3/4" hole so the hard lines of the tank could protrude through the firewall in order to get the tank to clear that former. I also did not want any risk of the tank sliding forward against the back of the firewall crimping the lines. That is not a problem with other tanks like GP or DuBro, where there is a protrusion in the tank to prevent kinking of lines.

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

The warbird is fine, I imagine $25 or so for a new canopy and a little paper and you won't know the difference but thanks for the concern.

I'll try it out and post my results but I'm sure it will be a couple of months. (Of the smoke system)

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

[sm=confused.gif]Huh??

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

That was in response to the smoke system and the accident I had, sorry about that.

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

Tony, I've used the EZ filler on a couple of planes and I just started trying the fuel dots because I fly so many different planes the adapter issue got kind of old. Sometimes I had problems getting the fuel adapter to fit in the adapter so I'm curious to see what you think. Is it too close to the firewall? When you put the cowl on I would think it would be covered up but I haven't investigated it yet. That's my next step so I'm not sure what I'll use, fuel dot or EZ system but I like your install...nice and clean.

Pilgram, did you find where we were talking about the smoke? I must have been in a hurry when I wrote that. I think my fuel tank mid-line is level with the carb inlet. What is is the reason for 1/4" lower, fuel leading out carb?

tuwood

The fuel valve will be behind the cowl but I figured I'd cut a hole in the cowl for access. I didn't want to route the fuel lines to where it wouldn't be covered by the cowl because it seemed like too much distance for the fuel to go. I'm also planning to install a dubro remote glow ignitor so I don't have to have a hole in the cowl for the glow plug. (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD693) I'll put that further back on the fuse because it doesn't really matter where it goes.

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

I don't remember if I said or not but we will be installing a switch and servo with a "AA" rechargeable battery that is activated by the throttle for the ignition...sounds complex but is simple and nice not to have to worry about a glow ignitor. Here's one I did before

tuwood

I didn't get to spend a lot of time in the shop tonight but did make some good progress.

I decided to put the top formers on so I'd know how they'd interact with the fuel tank. As you can see I was able to level the tank out & the tank is just a little lower than the carb but hopefully it will work out. I didn't glue the front of the tank mount because it stays in the notches very well. If I run into a pressure issue with the tank down the road I can just cut the small brace on the back & slide the whole assembly out to modify it.
I did cut a small notch at the front of the tank because the tubes were a little snug up against some wood. I'll probably throw another triangle stock on top of that to make sure there's plenty of reinforcement in that area.

I built a servo mount for the throttle servo out of aircraft ply. My goal was to get it as close as possible to minimize flex on the cable. With the two guides I made for the flex cable to go through it's very rigid & I think it's going to work out well.

I did notice that the "BB" former was a little confusing as to where exactly to mount it. The manual says to mount it in the notches but there arent any. The plan's had it very far up where it would be up on top of the gas tank. That left a huge gap between it and the instrument panel former so I dropped it back a bit & put it on top of the B former where it seemed like it should go. [8D]

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

I agree that the location of that former left a long stretch of the stringers unsupported. On mine I made an additional former to glue between "B-B" and the instrument panel former. To make the fuel tank removable, I fastened mine to the former with screws. The tabs that go into the firewall are designed to only be held there with the positioning tabs.

tuwood

I didn't get a lot done on Thursday because I had a slight technical difficulty. I'm sure you guys will get a kick out of this one.
I put the sheeting onto the top of the fuse & as always when sheeting I got a fair amount of CA on my finger tips. I usually grab some CA debonder to get it off & it's not a big deal. Well as you can see from my picture the debonder is green & the GP Thin CA also has some green on it so guess which one I grabbed. Yep, I put my four finger tips & thumb together & completely doused them all with thin CA & didn't realize what I was doing until it started to burn like hell. I completely fused all of my left fingers together!! [:@]
So, I spent about the next 3 hours Thursday soaking my left hand in debonder to get them unstuck. fortunately there was no skin damage & my wife has a story to tell all of her friends.

I then went at it again on Friday & after about 10 minutes into it I completely glued my thumb to the side of the fuse. Uggh, here we go again so after freeing myself from that mess, I called it a night. I really need to stop using CA when sheeting because that's the only time I get into these situations.

OK, enough embarassing stuff. Besides gluing myself to myself & my plane I was able to get the cabanes installed, finish sheeting the front of the fuse & epoxied the tail feathers on over the past couple days. I decided to reinforce the cabane mounting area with some aircraft ply. The supplied bolt/nut combo wasn't long enough to get through this so I decided to use some blind nuts that I had lying around & put some thread lock on them.

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

Ah well, like you said, it makes for a good story to tell. I thought your thumb looked a little crusty in the one pic! I have days like that too, where after 5 mins I just decide it's not a good day to do this, hang it up for another day.

tuwood

OK, today went better. I didn't glue myself to anything.

I started out by gluing the turtle deck. I used wood glue on this because it would have been a bit tricky with CA. I don't have a huge selection of clamps so I used a bunch of clothes pins & they worked perfect.

My LHS didn't have the size of Aileron stock I needed to replace the undersized ones that came with the kit so I did some patch work. I glued a 1/16 sheet to the stock & it was almost the perfect size so I finished up the top wing trailing edge & aileron's.

I then finished the interplane struts which pretty much completes the construction phase so I'm moving forward with setting up all the servo's & control horns. As I said in an earlier post I decided to increase the throws on all the control surfaces because I want to experiment with 3D as much as I can.
I also decided to go with 4-40 pushrod's & dubro heavy duty hardware all the way around.

As you can see, I built the aileron servo mount for one side of the wing & mounted all of the linkage.

I do have a question about the pull-pull rudder. I do plan to use the setup that came with it but the instructions don't tell you how to set it up. I'm assuming that I'll be soldering the cable into a connector similar to the picture attached, but am I supposed to do that on both ends of the cable?
If anybody has some picture of this setup I'd appreciate it.

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

Yes, you have the cable set up correctly. It is easier if you double over the cable where it is inside the brass threaded fitting, so it fits better before soldering (make sure to use silver solder). Mock up the assembly with rudder and servos installed, attach the fittings at one end, then mark the length of the cables to the correct length for attachment at the other end. Keep in mind that the plans show all servos mounted on the same plane of height. I found that my rudder servo arm would have interfered with the elevator controls, so I shimmed my rudder servo to be 3/8" higher with some bass wood. Let me know if this makes sense or not, I can post pics if you need.

tuwood

yeah, that makes sense. So, do I use the same connector's on each end of the cable? I noticed on Sullivan's web site that they had eye bolts on the rudder end of the cable, so that's why I'm asking.

I do think I will pick up some upgraded control horns for the rudder. I'm not a big fan of the plastic ones.

Bobman

My Feedback: (5)

Hi All,

Just caught this thread while I was browsing & it brought back some memories. I've gone thru 2 Goldberg Ultimates and have a third kit sitting here untouched in the "build queue" that just might get pushed forward some. The first was an old kit when it first came out, built completely stock w/ a YS120 & it flew like a dream. Had one season on it and (stupidly) sold it. As of last year it was still flying regularly. Second one had a few small mods.... heavier firewall, C/F wing struts, 4 independant servo's on the ailerons, smoke tank, & glass cowl. It was probably one of the best planes I've ever flown in the past 25+ years, but unfortunately met it's early demise when a rudder cable let go on the back side of a knife-edge loop. Complete loss, although a spectacular balsa & monokote splat in the runway!

Inspection of the wreckage showed that the pull-pull linkage failed at the solder joint on the cable at the rudder end (completely my fault!). I don't think I'd trust a solder joint at this location, especially with the huge flight loads placed on that big rudder. There are alternative pull-pull setups out there used on big-birds that use kevlar cord (I believe that's what it is) that loop through a hole drilled in the threaded coupler. The cord then doubles back on itself & a ferrule gets crimped over it, or something along those lines. I've used similar w/ cables on WW1 scale linkages (Proctor).

The four aileron servo's were probably overkill, but it made setup quick & easy, & I never worried about the inter-wing pushrods coming loose or vibrating. The only sore spot I had on both of the planes was getting that damned upper wing retaining "wire" through the rear hole in the cabane strut at the field. Was that ever changed on future kits? I got to the point where I never took the wings off unless I absolutely had to!

Setup properly this plane *WILL* make the pilot look good! It's rock stable, will do just about anything, and is a ball to fly. Good luck with your build.....

Bob

tuwood

I'm sorry for the loss of your Ultimate but it does look like you have some fond memories.

I have to admit that I've been on the fence about using the pull pull on the rudder or mounting my high torque servo in the tail & using the heavy duty dubro linkages such as I did on the Aileron. Now I just fell over the fence & you have me re-thinking my choice to go with the pull-pull rudder.
I guess my thought process is that if I only have 3 or 4 inches of 4-40 wire then the disadvantage shouldn't be much. I certainly wouldn't want to do a push/pull rudder with the servo up front.

I'm not sure of the old setup on the top wing mount, but I'm pretty sure it's unchanged. I dremmeled a pretty sharp point into the rod on mine & it seems to be able to find the hole on the backside during the trial fittings, but I haven't tried mounting the wing to the assembled fuse yet.

campbec

Hi Tony et al,

Wow Tony for someone who was a little apprehensive with the kit you have certainly been powering along. I will post some images of my build soon. I have made some modifications to the build that may be of interest.

I added an additional layer of ply to the firewall and epoxied the cut-outs into the supplied second layer. I added carbon fiber rods to the interplane struts leading edge to both add rigidity and a better airfoil. I also added some balsa cross braces to aid the covering process. Like you I was dissapointed with the difference of the aileron stock thickness to the wing trailing edge and I chamfered the trailing edge to meet the aileron. I have built the wings with two servos and have used West resin and glass cloth on the wing centres. Based on experince with my CG Super Chipmunk I have replaced the metal wing bolts with nylon bolts and tapped the thread into slighly thicker blocks, (on the Chippy I find one metal bolt almost always cross threads at the field and takes a few goes to start so I have saved the frustration). I have used Robart hinge points on all surfaces and will go with alloy undercart and larger wheels as I fly of a rough grass strip.

Cheers,

Colin

Bobman

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Tony,

No need to feel bad about the loss. Fact of life is that airplanes fly.... airplanes crash! Like I said, it was a spectacular, the only regret is that I didn't have it on video!

Stay with the pull-pull, just do a better job than I did on the connections. Take a look at the bottom of the page on this link

[link=http://www.sullivanproducts.com/GoldnRodMainFrame.htm]

and you'll get an idea of the way it *should* be done. While soldering cables may work for some, I won't trust it on a primary flight surface again. For what it's worth, both airplanes were setup with dual elevator servos & used wire-filled nyrods. (i.e. a two-tube nyrod with an additional one piece wire inside the inner tube) Make sure you harden the areas where the horns mount to the surfaces, or (better) scab a piece of ply into the structure at the attachment point. Don't recall on the plans if it had a ply insert there or not.

As far as the upper wing attachment goes, after problems with the first one I specifically recall taking LOTS of time to make sure the second one lined up, had a nylon guide tube, etc. and it *STILL* was a pain in the butt! More of an annoyance at the field than anything else, pretty much standing on my head at times trying to get a dumb piece of wire just 1 inch further.[:@]

Only other thing that I recall as a problem was the bolts used to hold the outer wing struts to the wings. On the first plane I had cracked the little tabs on the wing ribs a couple times when I tumbled it on a landing. With the second one I went ahead and glassed both sides of the ply ribs with 4oz cloth first to prevent this. Oh, and those outer struts take a HUGE load during knfe edge & snaps. Make sure you build & attach them strong!

Your build looks great.... when you're done with this one go out & find a CG Sukhoi kit. Just keep the CA off your hands!

Bob

tuwood

I was initially worried that the Ultimate would be much a harder build than my SSE, but I can honestly say that it wasn't. Some areas were a little harder, but other areas were a little easier.

I considered adding an extra layer to the firewall but I don't own a skill saw yet so it would have been a mis-shaped block of some sort. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed with the stock FW.

I went with CA hinges all the way around. It's only my second kit & I figured I'd stick to what I used before on those. I did add an extra hinge on the rudder because 3 hinges seemed a bit weak.

I look forward to seeing pictures of your build.

tuwood

OK, maybe there's a compromise on the Pull-Pull system. I think I'm going to buy the sullivan Kevlar system. For 10 bucks it will give me a lot more confidence with a 100 lb. rated rudder system.

That's good info on the wing struts. I have some extra fiberglass so I might go over them & see what I can do to reinforce that area. I might look into the CF additions to that area as campbec suggested.

I certainly plan to wring this thing out in the air so I need all the reinforcements I can get.

FlyingPilgrim

My Feedback: (26)

If you aren't comfortable with the soldered cable fittings, you can also go with DuBro's pull-pull kit. It uses crimps. I have used the Dubro on other planes, and it works fine. I don't think I'd move the servo back away from the original plans, as it will move your CG back too far.

For anyone just starting this kit, there is an easy way to make the top wing line up perfectly when assembling at the field. Higley's Bipes book outlines the idea of adding a couple pieces of ply cut to the shape of a "U", which you glue onto the structure of the wing. They are fitted to guide the sheet metal braket so the holes for the assembly wire line up perfectly with the holes in the sheet metal braket. No fishing around for the holes.

tuwood

I finished the cover for the right aileron servo & mounted and covered the left one.